This has been the biggest question left by the director and writer of Code Geass, Taniguchi Goro and Okouchi Ichiro. As a matter of fact, this is not petty question at all. Should Lelouch proven to be alive, that opens up a new possibility of a sequel to Code Geass – let it be an OVA, or a movie, or another season altogether. If you ask me, I’d opt for a remake for Code Geass R2. The plot was so much “crappier” than season 1. Putting that aside, I’ll put this myth to the test, all in Mythbuster fashion: is Lelouch dead or alive?
Myth #1: Lelouch inherited Charles’ code, rendering him immortal.
Very good point with very good argument. This myth is probably the most convincing one among the lot. This is quoted from Nergal and 4chan. Taken from anime otaku.
Charles grabbed Lelouch with his right hand, which had the Geass sigil. Lelouch needed the fully evolved Geass to transfer a code. The code doesn’t appear to activate until someone dies. Hence, why C.C. was wounded when she first inherited her code. Same happened with Charles in the World of C. When Lelouch touched Nunnally, Nunnally got a flash of his memories. This ONLY happens when a high potential Geass user touches someone with the fully evolved Geass. The title of the series is “R2″, which is similar to how “C.C” is pronounced. So Lelouch would be “R.R.” which is Engrish (I presume) for L.L., Lelouch Lamprouge. When C.C. is talking on the wagon, she says “the power of Geass brings loneliness…that’s not quite right is it, Lelouch?” and nods her head in the direction of the wagon driver.
Counterpoint: Lelouch had a flashback when he touched C.C. because he is already a Geass user. And that happened when C.C. “phasing something” to Suzaku then, leaving her vulnerable. Nunnally only held Lelouch’s hand. And you can say Lelouch was vulnerable then as he was dying. The flashback is nothing more than her inborn ability. Even when she was blind, she was able to tell someone if they are lying simply by holding their hands. It is a special gift for her – telepath. I don’t think you need Geass to have that. High potential Geass user? I’m not even sure if she is a Geass user unless proven. FYI, there is a novel based on Nunnally on an alternate dimension where she has a Geass, which is to see the future. Not Bismarck’s Geass of seeing the future. More like “that new African guy in Heroes Season 3” see the future. This is clearly not the same as Code Geass and does not apply to what had happened in Code Geass R2. I also like how this myth puts R2 as R.R. or L.L., as for Lelouch Lamperouge. That theory is too farfetched since we are yet to know C.C.’s and even V.V.’s real name. Otherwise that would make Charles (who had already received his code) as C.C. too. Lastly is when C.C. alleged to be talking to Lelouch. This one has been the point where people begin to ask whether or not Lelouch is alive. In fact, this also needs no further explaining. Face it, this is not the first time we see C.C. talking to herself like that,despite the fact she may seem to have tilted her head upward as if she is talking to the wagon driver. But hey, she could be tilting up to the sky and said Lelouch’s name as though she is talking to him in heaven (or hell, which ever works). Even before this, she seems to be talking to Marianne even though she is not in her conscious mind or what we call as “the World of C”. Marianne was inside Anya’s body then and I don’t think Anya/Marianne was nearby at that time. If there is any slight possibility that he is alive, my bet is that Lelouch is in “the World of C” and not the wagon driver. So, that put him physically dead and consciously alive.
Myth status: Plausible
Myth #2: Orange-kun’s hardcore loyalty.
At first, I could hardly find this as a concrete point but it does have some truth in it. Courtesy of anon from 4chan and was also taken from anime otaku.
Orange knew of Lelouch’s and Suzaku’s plan and helped them out by ordering his men not to fire on Zero, he even smiled when Zerozaku jumped on his shoulder. Now would Orange, a man who devoted himself entirely to Lelouch and threw away everything without a second thought be OK with a plan where the sole person he wants to protect in life is actually killed? The answer to that is NO, not even if Lelouch ordered him to accept the plan: he would not go along with it and would protect him with his life. There is only one way that Orange would be OK with a plan like that and thats if he knew about Lelouche’s immortality, which I assume he did as he worked with V.V. in the Geass research base. Orange was OK with this plan as he knew Lelouch would come to no harm and would be able to start a new peaceful life with the woman he loves in a world which he himself had made peaceful. Even at the end, we see Orange on his orange plantation, completely content with the way things have panned out, he definitely could not be that happy had Lelouche actually died. There it is, firm evidence of Lelouche’s immortality if the scene with C.C. and the cart driver wasn’t painfully obvious enough.
Counterpoint: Okay, I am not a fan of Suzaku nor neither of Zerozaku. And I am pretty sure Orange-kun is loyal to Lelouch. I know he would not want Lelouch to be in harm’s way but if Zero Re;quiem is something Lelouch really committed into, I don’t see the point why he should be stopping Lelouch. Lelouch being his master surely have ordered Orange-kun to obey him despite (possible) resistance from him. He is happy because everything worked out as what Lelouch had planned and that thought alone makes him happy. To put this in the best way is that the peace they achieved thereafter is Lelouch’s legacy and that surely makes him one happy knight. And yes, again with the cart scene where it all began. All the myths. In any sense, this myth doesn’t seem too solid.
Myth status: Busted
Myth #3: Lelouch’s Geass effect on Schniezel is not destroyed.
This one is also taken from anime otaku (was told by Loba actually), left by one of the commentors So, this commentor, Saheed O. said the following:
All the above is pure speculation. The only credible reason that Lelouch is still alive is his Geass over Schniezel. Once a person with Geass dies, their Geass over someone ends. (Remember Rolo in the research lab killing those kids who had Geass on one of the soldiers. He crushes them, the geass over that guy ended.) Now should Lelouch dies, the Geass over Schniezel would be ended. However it isn’t. He serves Zero. That is the only concrete FACT/REASON Lelouch will be alive.
Counterpoint: No, I don’t think so. And here’s proof. Anya was supposed to be under Marianne’s Geass effect and quite possibly Charles’ too. However they both are “gone” or presumed dead, this Geass effect have been gone from Anya. That is quite logical not until Orange-kun uses Geass Canceller on her in the final episode. Why would he need to do that? One, he realized that Anya is STILL under Geass influence and hence, cancelled it. Two, he’s just wanted to show us that the Geass Canceller is still functioning and not just a face accessory to fit his “orange” persona.
Myth status: Busted
IMO, it seems pretty clear that Lelouch is dead. At least, that is what the facts are telling. The rest that have been circulating in many blogs and forums are just speculation. No surprise, Lelouch’s death was not expected. I, personally did not want him to die. I grieved for his demise. I truly do (playing Madder Sky and Continued Story non-stop on my playlist). I am also sure the writers want us to believe that Lelouch is truly dead. If there’s a surprise twist in there, that would be another story. Another unconfirmed story. I want to believe that he is dead because Zero Re;quiem serves as his atonement for everything that had happened before. He pushed all blame onto himself – Euphemia’s death, the Japanese massacre, Shirley’s death, Rolo’s death, the constant chaos in Area 11. In a way, his death seems honourable and he dealt with it.
Let’s say he survived the attack from Zerozaku due to his immortality. I am sure he was not aware he is immortal then. So don’t think too much about Suzaku crying and C.C. crying. I am sure they both did not expect that and please do not say those are tears of joy. That is just complete BS. In fact, to have Lelouch alive would bastardize his death and leaves Zero Re;quiem purposeless. He did it to atone for his sins. Lelouch played Messiah, people. Can’t you see? If he is alive, say 3 days later, then make him a new God. Lelouchianity anyone?
P/s: Everything I mentioned in this post are of my opinion. Some may agree, some may not. I am quite sure one of the members in my team do not agree with me. As I quote from a famous saying, “opinions are like asshole; everybody has one”, this is just another piece of my mind about the truth behind Lelouch’s presumed death. I opinionated that he is dead because I wanted closure to this story. Code Geass is over for good and that’s the whole fact. An OVA or a movie would be nice. But to make another season is quite a stretch. A remake of season 2 would be perfect or maybe another spin-off to make Code Geass a franchise series. Why not, if this question alone is generating so much buzz?
If you have an other opinion about this, don’t be shy and let it out. It might crack the myth.
blindability
Brian
Poro
jGLZA
Loba
TeamZer0
thaivuN
Bokutachi no BLOG 
The crutch of the first theory is whether Nunnaly had telepathic abilities or not. If Nunnaly did have telepathic abilities then she just read Lelouch’s surface memory and Lelouch did not do anything, thus meaning he probably did not have a Code. If she does not have telepathic powers but rather the ability to tell if someone is lying through physical means such as touch through someone’s hand, as her senses were heightened due to her being blind, then Lelouch most likely transferred his memories to her through the Code.
I personally believe it’s the later. There have been other cases in fiction of blind people displaying the ability of telling someone is lying through physical means, so it would not be as much of a stretch then if Nunnaly developed a sixth sense such as telepathy from being blind. While we do not know if Nunnaly had the image flashes in the other two cases of her touching someone’s hand since it wasn’t from her POV, it’s more likely she did not otherwise they should have displayed it once. Also Nunnaly possibly would not have been surprised the moment she touched his hand, unless she got the images before the audience and understood his motives before they displayed the image flashback.
Well 1st i would like to say this is old and doesn’t really matter but look at this video it is not a fake clip, i know so because i know how to edit videos and clips and the pixels are not out of ordinary also it say it is the director’s cut. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOTEefX1OAs
Well the video is in bad quality probably because he used a shitty capture card, but i think he is alive!!! LONG LIVE LELOUCH
LELOUCH is alive. the cut scene on episode 2 differs, from the japanese version and the english dubbed. in the japanese version – the farmer in the front was given a chance to be seen on the camera. he had the same hair, eyes, lips and facial structure of Lelouch. and the pink paper plane like.. lelouch made one while he was at ashford. it is possible he is ALIVE. if he became immortal, so yea. id like to think of it as, he and C.C live together, after all – all is well and c.c found someone who can love her and appreciate her.
i agree with the theory he is alive.
i think u can make a case that theres not enough proof to consider hiss death as much as a case that he is alive.
1 reason is where is his funeral or buring(depending on how hated u think he is)? I mean as soon as he would of died there would be another scene with a funeral to confirm his death is true. like dam whats that bitches name and her father had a funeral to let the audience know ok we know that ur in shocked and in disbelieve so heres proof the bitch died by rolo.
reason #2 when he was killed by (zero) where did his body go where did (orange) take him. not sayin this means somthin but retreating so fast to avoid a crowd?if he didnt want conflict between the crowd and guards he could of said guards stand down ur free to go the crazy guy is dead now. like sayin ok go and retreate i got to take him somewhere SAFE
also why would the writer leave the story iffy as he was sayin hes alive(cough, cough).also every writer likes to leave secret hints to stuff like c2s name is actually snow (i think). yeah like with all the little drops of water fallin each time they say her name in that 1 episode. and it happens that when he says snow two times in the same sentence two drops of water feel as if sayin snow is her real name. so what im trying to get to is not physical evidence but just stuff writers like doing for clues. im talking about how the pink crane stands for lulu and its sitting st8 up normally like sugesting hes ok. in past episode they’ve shown when cranes fall it means as a symbol of near death like oggys black crane fell when he got shot.
And why make a big deal about the drivers face purposefully not being shown as tho screaming ITS HIM, ITS HIM!!!!
and
why would c2 look upper(cuz shes already lookin at the sky) if shes talkin to him insinde her mind or at the sky (if she thinks hes in hevean). everyone knows if your talking to some u tend to look at their direction. right?like when your looking away and speaking to some1 when your done with ur sentence or question u usaully tend to turn or look towards the person ur talking to hear their response or to let them hey im talking to you. so why look towards the driver slightly if he is not him.
im not sayin how is he alive but rather saying how is he dead.
and ppl say well if he is alive then he screwed susaku or whatever(cant spell it right now) but how.
he has to be zero and never show his face? well if lulu lives he to immortal and can never EVER! show his face and as a mater of fact he got stabbed and i bet that bitch hurt too.
but for just sayin how he is alive i think the Charles theory is best i mean he killed an immortal man u got be rewarded for something i mean dam the nigga is immortal and he killed him. i mean god has reward him and be like u saved me so im gonna gift and curse.walla imortallity
ok first your #2 reason is invalid, they would not show him being taken away(there is no point), and if he got up and walked away they would know he was alive. Plus they had to actually do an autopsy to prove his death or at the very least get his vitals, because as he said they would have to check to make sure his vitals were hit or he could still be alive. With that implied they had to know for sure he was dead or else they would have known he was alive and shit would of happened and they would know for sure of his death. Even Kallen said he was dead.
Also Lelouch told Suzaku to kill him, meaning he knew he was gonna die.
Yes but her name is Not C.C Her full name is CAROLINE CI BRITANNIA! she is his great grandmother! INCEST .-.
lelouch is dead.no offense to your opinions but seriously. He couldnt at all have been immortal in any way. when u take someones code you lose your power for geass, though you are immune to it. in the process of killin ghis parents he gained the perfect geass. after he had killed them he is still shown to have used geass. lelouch using geass= no code which= no immortality= lelouch is dead. end of story.
I was watching japan version (preffer japan voices) AND THERES NO SCENE CUT! There are 2 possibilities, 1 that is fanmade 2 that is cutted from anime cuz it would make Lelouch sacryfice worthless in 1 look.
just because the youtube uplaoder CLAIMS its director’s cut, doesn’t mean it is. The extra scene is a downright fake.
The video is bad quality because the original runs were in 480p at best.
secondly it is very easy to manipulate through software to make something look legit. I even have a 2008 AMV where someone cut out Haruhi suzuimya’s poses and stances from opening to ending in a very smooth animation.
I’ve downloaded both tv and fansub runs of code geass in jap and that extra scene literally doesn’t exist
not only that but everyone who claims the extra scene is from director’s cut or other has no credibility or source for the scene.
To be blunt its utter bull.
yes lelouch is a live long live lelouch
LELOUCH IS ALIVE, here’s why and I’m making it simple. I just rewatched the end of Episode 21 R2 and here we see Lelouch got the second marking in his eye b/c he extended his powers by using his geass on God. BUT my view states he’s immortal now because he killed his father. Bear with me now and watch the episode!! You’ll see he used his extra powerful geass on his parents to get rid of them, (yes they were already being absorbed BUT he got rid of them quicker.) Near the end of episode 21 you’ll even hear the sound of him using his geass (and we all know that geass clicking sound)… While Charles was choking him, Lelouch said “Be Gone” (we hear the sound and suddenly) we see their absorption speed up meaning, Lelouch killed his father and so gained his dad’s code. Though it didn’t come into effect until he died. Someone on another site said he wasn’t immortal b/c he didn’t have the symbol on his forehead but neither did Charles. Charles had it inside his hand. We never see Lelouch’s hands after his death…
After watching the last episode, I’d first thought somehow that Lelouch entered C2’s mind and was living in there but that’s not possible considering only his mother’s geass allowed Her to do something similar to that (being able to communicate with C2 while in another person’s mind). Also at his “death” we don’t see him using his geass at the last minute… So i’m left to believe his death unlocked his ability to become immortal (as someone else stated on a different site).
About Nunally, “Also Nunnaly possibly would not have been surprised the moment she touched his hand, unless she got the images before the audience and understood his motives before they displayed the image flashback.” I agree with this, I doubt the creators would do that, show us one thing but mean something completely different, and yeah, if she had telepathy they would’ve shown it a separate time earlier.
I think she could just tell when people were lying. I think she was able to see b/c yeah he was vulnerable and I’m pretty sure it had something to do with her having been in contact with his geass before so him and her had a bond that allowed her to see his memories… like when Lelouch touched C2 and saw her organization’s memories (not her personal ones but the flashbacks we first saw of her in season 1, i can’t remember the episode.)?
Also, Nunnaly stated in the floating fortress that it was the FIRST time she had seen her brother’s face in eight years, now, if she had telepathy, wouldn’t that mean that each time she touched him or someone close to him she was able to see him?
And as stated, writers don’t write something and mean something different, they leave little COHERENT clues for one to figure out, this article takes a bunch of coherent clues and infers overly complicated reasons for them not to mean what they do mean.
Just a problem with the Lelouch kiliing his father bit, Code holders are immune to Geass, and in fact you see Charles immune to Lelouch’s Geass. Personally I’ve always seen that Lelouch ordered Humanity’s subconscious to consume Marianne and Charles, since at that point, they both existed solely as minds at that point. Though this brings to question the possibility of C’s world rendering people immune to dying through conventional means, since Charles survived a shot to the heart, while under the influence of Lelouch’s Geass, but at the time wasn’t a code bearer.
Though there isnt an instance, that i can remember, of someone using a ‘targeted’ Geass on another Geass user. Targeted as in how Lelouch’s has a very strict set of rules about who it effects, whereas Rolo has an Area Geass. So theres the 2 options that either 1) Charles was powerful enough to resist Lelouch’s Geass and knowing he wouldnt die because he was in C’s world, shot himself, or 2) Geass can only effect code bearers in C’s world. It’s established that Geass is effective in C’s world, because Lelouch uses it on ‘God’
As far as Nunnally’s telepathic abilities, It’s not unheard of for someone that has lost the use of their eyes to have stronger senses in other fields. Some say blind people are able to analyze voices and tell if someone is lying. Personally I think she was just a regular human being.
Granted its true that the location of your Code doesnt really matter, because we see C2 with her’s on her forehead, and Charles has his on his palm. So it’s not really impossible to assume that R2(Lelouch) could have his on his right eye. But its also possible that entering C’s world caused Lelouch’s power to intensify and give him a second eye. I support the second theory about him getting a second eye, because he uses both eyes to place Geass on people after that. And knowing Lelouch’s meticulous nature, he would have tested if the second eye was an actual Geass or not.
As to C2 talking to Lelouch, C2 can speak to people in C’s world. Evidenced by her speaking to Marianne through out the first season. When Lelouch is talking to Charles, Charles and Marianne say explicitly that anyone dying returns to C’s world, Clovis spoke with Charles after his death though he was in the Thought Elevator at the time, and Marianne spoke with C2 despite the fact that her mind still existed in the living world.
after Lelouch sent Charles away
We see lelouch
USING HIS GEASS WITH BOTH EYES
ON OTHER PEOPLE.
Your logic is flawed and utter bull.
Lelouch stil has geass in both his eyes after his fight with Charles
Conclusion: Charles did NOT give lelouch his code and he would never give it willingly
AND
lelouch therefore, did not receive the code from Charles EITHER.
C.C. also accidentally allowed Suzaku enter her mind/retrieve some memories even though Suzaku had no aptitude of being a Geass User. it has nothing to do with nunnaly touching Lelouch because Lelouch has this so called “code”
C.C. STILL has her code to the very end.
Sorry but your argument just failed.
I think Lelouch is still alive. Orange claims to be loyal only to Marriane’s family. However, at the end he was seen with Anya at the farm, which is a similar setting to C.C. and the cart driver. My theory is that they are at the same place and he is protecting Lelouch. If Lelouch is dead he would’ve been somewhere else watching over Nunally.
When you have a code, you lose your geass power, as you see in C.C. once Lulu becomes emperor he continues to use geass, therefore he cannot have a code. Furthermore he did not kill the emperor, the collective unconscious did.
If in any way he remains, it would be due to the fact that he had such an impact on the minds and lives of the entire world, that he is preserved in the collective unconscious and C’s world. This would also explain how C.C could talk to him.
However I believe C.C was talking to the origami crane, as that is an established symbol of hope within the series.
The code is only activated the first time the person is injured. It showed the first time with C.C. when she got hers, then Charles was affected by Lelouch’s Geass to shoot himself but as he got injured, the code activated. Then Lelouch’s code would only activate when he was injured which is when Suzaku stabbed him. If you watch the Director’s cut it is pretty obvious that Lelouch is still alive.
Brian…for a mythbuster….it sure is full of holes…XD
But then, each man to his own I guess…
this is lengthy but i believe is the correct deduction for him being alive. i originally posted this on wikis discussion board trying to get people to change his status to most probably alive.
—I think for multiple reasons the status of lelouch in the end or rather on his bio should be that he most likely lives. first we can start off by thinking about how he would live. There are only two ways he would live. One is that he absorbed c.c. code but that would be wrong since i believe she would die. The most likely way for him to live is that that was not really him but c.c. in disguise. This is logical for two reasons. One it is already shown that a perfect replica of lelouch is possible in the world for when his maid disguised herself as him to make sure his absence from school was not noticed. It has also been shown that she has taken his place before (although only as zero). The second is when his sister touches him as he is “dead” and she merges conciousness with the person. That ability is exclusive to c.c. (or people with the code) alone and has never been shown to happen with anyone else. People may argue that during the scene of him being stabbed c.c. is shown praying but that really does not amount to much as in many animes, most likely including this one i cant think of an example off the top of my head, they tend to play with scenes in order to mislead the viewer and add that twist. From that train of though we go into thinking: so if he had lived what would he do. the most obvious is what happened. He would go into hiding. Now how would the most known face in the world hide? The very fact that you do not see the face of the driver and that he is hiding every part of him is basis enough for the theory that he is a live. Since if he was alive and obviously that well known anyone who would see him would panic therefore a disguise of that magnitude is required. The third main point is in what c.c. says. She says according to the subs shown that geass the power of kings leaves people in solitude and also sais that that is not entirly true ending with a question aimed towards lelouch. Using all the previous facts and 99% probability of them being true or at least the most logical then we can say that she is talking to him directly. We can infer from the very fact that she is saying that it is not true that the power of kings leaves people alone that obviously she means that he is not dead or alone because he is with her.
To discredit the other scenarios here are the reasons why they most likely arent true. In general the main question is why nunally is capable of merging conciousness with lelouch. That alone hints that the scenario above is logically the best case. The thought that she is talking to herself is logically false by her very wording. Once again why would she say that to someone who is alone and dead. (yes i can think of a few good b.s. reasons but none that are really valid and only lower the probability that that is the correct scenario). second is her talking to his spirit. It has already been brought up although deleted that technically the people she has spoken to have been alive. the third scenario that she is talking to the driver of the cart is strange in what does the person who wrote that mean. is the person implying that the driver is simply a driver in which case what she sais to him would make no sense since shes telling a random person. or is the person infering that the driver is lelouch.
To conclude the mosy likely scenario is that he is alive for those reasons and i cannot think of any other logical way it would go. There are many infered scenarios but none that hold this much basis and would leave more questions then answeres. Such as if he did die why is it that nunnaly merged with his conciousness. Why did c.c. say what she said in that wording as if he was alive. common sense dictates that she is saying he is alive and not alone but with her. for the sake of the people who watch this and have not thought of those reasons above i think someone should post them since i do not have the ability to do so myself. I think the viewers have the right to those deductions if the subject is going to be brought up at all since once again through them the most probable scenario is that he is alive although yes the other ones still hold a small probability. It would be unnecesarily be keeping viewers guessing who would want more truth out of the ending. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arturo8913 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
—I have to give another reason for him being alive. He absorbed his father’s code when he killed him, thus becoming immortal. That’s why the second season is R2 R.R. Lelouch Lamperouge in Japanese (from what I heard) translates into a name with the initials R.R. I agree completely with your analysis of the final scene though just not how he survives. Also another thing to bring up, Orange does not seem bothered with his death, which probably means he knew Lelouch was immortal and that’s why he’s smiling in what seems to be the same area as Lelouch and C.C.
—Right since that was the most controversial part (him dying) i could not completley say what the most likely circumstances were when he died. That scenario is also one i did not think of however im not sure if thats true for a few reasons. one is im not sure if he really did absorb his code. im pretty sure when his father died he was being killed off by peoples wishes or something in the world of c.c. therefore not being absorbed. i can back this up because as he is being absorbed into the world of c.c. both charles and marianne go through the same fate if somehow it was different charles would have been absorbed differently then marianne therefore concluding their fates where the same, which was being absorbed into c.c.’s world. also though this could be optional if you do absorb the code your geass gets replaced by the immunity of geass and its clearly shown that lelouch uses his geass multiple times after. The reaction of Orange was also one i wanted to use as a basis for support but there was not enough strength in it as opposed to the other reasons to bring it up but since it has ill elaborate on that. The way Orange reacts is also a good indicator that lelouch is not dead as well as marianne not being dead. Orange ends up in the same scenery as lelouch (ironically picking oranges) and seems satisfied with the ending of things. If we continue to go off of the train of thought regarding reactions then there are a few irregularities which support lelouch being alive (though once again these are reactions therefore do not carry as much support as the original 3 reasons but add positivley to the speculation that lelouch is alive). Chronologically we start with Orange.He seems perfectly satisfied that lelouch is about to die and you would think he would be at least a bit sad. And now suazku. He appears to truley think lelouch has died and that he killed him (that becomes important later on though). Next is lelouch as he is dying he seems utterly at peace which is fine but still a litte strange. What really is noteworthy is what he says after he merges conciousness with nunally. He sais that he destroys and creates worlds yet why would he say that to his sister who he cares most for right as he dies. It sounds more like someone who is disconnected to the world would say but not really lelouch. Then we go into Orange again as he is at peace with anya in the same scenery as c.c. and the “cart driver”. c.c. seems completley content with things and that contentness as well as what she sais is more then screaming that lelouch is alive with her. the reason suzaku’s reaction is important is because he is the only one that is not content and if we take precedents into account then having plans that exclude people is a lelouch specialty. Therefore what i mean is that everone besides suzaku was in on the plan. more support for this can be found if you consider that suzaku is the only one that is left with a role therefore he is the only one that would need that motivation of having killed his best friend. i will address the anomaly of c.c. praying in the chapel. though i dont want to admit it does show support for lelouch dying but is just as i said earlier an anomaly. That is because she appears distressed and what she sais leads us to believe that he really is dying and also the timing would disprove that she is not in place of lelouch. However why would she react that way then say what she sais later. i do not consider this to be true and really do think it is only a trick and a rather cheap one since it is a stand alone scene and an anomaly which does not fit into any other scenario other then lelouch dying but once again does not support what she sais later on making it stand alone. no other scenario has enough support and if everything was weighed lelouch not dying would by far have more since lelouch dying only has the support of visually seing him dying and the c.c. chapel scene. Though you can laugh and say wait isnt visually seing him die enough? not when an anime decides to make death immune (the code) and fooling the viewers a constant throughout the anime. do i even need to bring up mao?
to be honest both him abosrbing charles code and c.c. impersonating him are valid since both can fit but logic disproves the first (either by the creators not supporting it enough or a mistake of theirs creating a mismatching ending) but would make more sense and be more probable then the second if it were true. if more support can be found that lelouch is immortal then i would agree. it would be nice if you could elaborate your reason on the title of the anime. i thought it stood for rebellion two. those producers sure are tricky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arturo8913 (talk • contribs) 12:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
i think your right besides marrian explains how her geass worked and that somehow she was able to communicate with c.c. and not have a physical body or for anya to be near which would discredit the theory that c.c. is talking to lelouch the way she did his mother episode 19 20 or 21 explain lelough’s mothers geass sooo there’s some more proof the he could be alive 🙂
I agree and in my mind he’s alive…. People seem to forget the reason why they ended it the way they did. It’s so the viewer can decide if he lives or dies. In my mind he either lived by taking C.C.’s code without killing her (which may be possible despite the way the other’s lost their code) or like you said C.C. was the one at the end. But I’d like to think that he got his father’s code because it would mean both him and C.C. are immortal… being together with one being immortal is a very sad thing.
All I’m saying is, if you believe he is alive the believe he is alive and if you think the reverse is true then think that. There’s nothing wrong with looking up reasons to support each statement but if the creators wanted either to be an absolute ending, they would have made it less ambiguous. It’s all about perception.
actually i read your reasons or myths you busted and none of them are the ones i bring up and i agree they are false except for two. first is orange in that i think his reaction is way to content and that he has insider knoweldge. second and this really is as the person above stated “crutch” of him being alive and what makes my theory 100% logical and possible. fact is is that she does have the conciousness merging with him and does not merley have telepathic abilities. she is able to tell that he is lying in the same way a lie detector would thats just plain simple and true. so without that the theory that he is dead is completley thrown out of water. think of it as the anime detective conan where if you want to find out the truth you have to think of every little detail not as a mishap because ive done that before and found out oh that wasnt just the anime being an anime and sort of off but was in fact a vital clue. if you want a truley inarguable and possible way to believe that he is alive that is the most logical way. if there is any place you know of where i can spread this message/analysis let me know.
@_@ No kidding. Took me some time to finish reading through this. So let me sort this out and make myself clear. On each “myth” or reasons to believe that Lelouch to be alive, I give counterpoint that can be argued to oppose to that reason/belief that he is alive and not necessary my bottomline objection against the idea. I’m giving those counterpoint arguments just so as to make it fair to both parties – those who believe he is dead and those who believe he is alive.
Of all 3 myths I mentioned, I find the first one to be plausible. For Lelouch to take on Charles’ code, that is very likely to happen. Of all the possibilities that he may be alive, I’ll go for this theory and have a good feeling this may be true though I insist to believe that Lelouch is dead.
For C.C. to take on Lelouch’s place when Suzaku stabbed him, very not likely. Judging from Lelouch’s personality, he is not afraid to risk his life and what more to offer his own life to atone for his mistakes in the past. He is such a honourable person to be frank though some of his battle tactics are quite unwitty. As for the telepathic thing, I don’t know to start with it. All I can say for certain is she needs to be a Geass user in order to receive Lelouch’s memory as what we have already knew in season 1 and yet, there is no proof so far showing that she is a Geass user besides her telepathic ablity. Again, Geass may not be necessary to have telepathy since her senses have heightened after being blind for so long.
To bring R2 or R.R. into the arguments seems rubbish to me because honestly, R2 can stand for anything. At first, when Sunrise announce the new title for Code Geass season 2 as Code Geass R2, I came to understand that there may be another person with the Geass code and named R2; the same way V2 and C2 are named in Japanese though after English adaptation, it became V.V. and C.C. Then, R2 did not surface as the story progressed. I changed my perception of R2 as rebellion 2, justifying that R2 is his second attempt to topple the Britannia empire after he failed in the Black Rebellion. It is not until recently when fans begin to say that Lelouch had inherited the code from his father, R2 becomes a fond reference to Lelouch. It’s funny that many used the title as a point of argument. Many said, Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion is referring to Lelouch receiving both Geass and Code. How godlike of him, isn’t it? Anyway, using the title is just too far-reaching for me and I could not grasp the reasoning to use title as an excuse that Lelouch is immortal. The title has nothing suggestive. Otherwise, they should not even give the name R2 for season 2 and retain Code Geass title if the title is supposed to be something suggestive. That brings back to R2 again, pondering whether or not it is making any reference whatsoever.
Last point to bring up is how the story progress so far. We should admit it, Code Geass R2 is such a trainwreck. All the plots were not polished and worse still, rushed towards the end. I have little hopes to believe that the writers had something big at the end of the story. And there was none indeed. All except that little question from C.C. suggesting that Lelouch is alive. Sure, he might be alive. C.C. had never talked to a dead person before. Point taken. Sure, he might disguise himself as wagon driver because he has no intention to show his bishounen face to the world to see and show that Lelouch is still alive. Lelouch is still the world’s enemy as far as they are concerned of. Point taken. So now, is this suggesting a continuation to the story? I doubt this would happen though, unless this little question is generating enough steam to begin production on the 3rd season.
For the purpose of Zero Re;quiem to be true and that I believe in Lelouch’s principle, Lelouch should be dead. If he is alive, then all I can say is that Suzaku is so screwed. Not only he needs to remain behind the mask for life and not as Kururugi Suzaku, he is subjected to babysit Nunnally for life. And please, no Suzaku X Nunnally. I CAN’T ACCEPT THAT!!!
I would like to make the comment that you do not need to be a Geass user to get the memory transfer. Both Suzaku and Anya got the memories from contact with C.C. Although Anya could be considered Mariana but Suzaku does not have any Geass powers.
I personally think though (this is not evidence) that it also makes as a better story as many people were asking why they did Charles’s arc first then Schneizels. It would then make sense from a literary point of view if Lelouch got Charles’s Code. This also is not evidence but it would be hilarious if we had the ending to the whole show all along in the title. Also alot of people are saying there will be an OVA, there most likely won’t just because anime directors like the open ending and sure enough people will be talking about Code Geass for YEARS to come due to this ending. I also don’t think that Lelouch being revived does not take away from the story if he did not know he was going to survive. Re is greek for suprise so it could be like a surprise ending?
Hm… I agree what Jarmel said about animators talking about CG for years to oome, but these animators seem to rather enjoy weird ‘image puns’ (I don’t know what else to call them). For example, Orange (I can’t spell his proper name) ends up picking oranges, and when Lelouch literally falls from his (whatever the giant stage thing was) it seems like a literal ‘fall from grace’ or like an empire’s ‘fall’. I wouldn’t be surprised if the animators had the ending in the title to start with. Some animators are very tricky and leave interesting hints but then again, there are animes such as Elfin Lied where the title makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and seem to be just there to look good.
Personally I’d like Lelouch to be alive, mainly because he seems to be the best anime mastermind the world has seen yet, beating Light (who went completely crazy and off the rails with his whole justice idea) since he kind of retained some sanity in the end and the world became a better place.
However, since Code Geass seems have strong connections to King Arthur legends*, the animators may leave an open ending since some version of the legend said he survived the battle, some said he died which keeps future generations guessing.
*Similarities:
-CC & Merlin both are old in age and are mysterious characters (she’s also called a witch while he WAS a wizard, according to the classical legends).
-Names of many Knightmares: Percival (Knight of Ten’s), Mordred (Knight of Six’s), Lancelot (Knight of Seven), the Glaston Knights were derived from something as well but I can’t remember, Tristan (Gino’s-can’t remember his number), etc.
-King Arthur being the son of royalty yet being abandoned at a young age due to circumstances & Lelouch being abandoned too, as well as being royalty.
-There is a character called Guinevere in the series (First Princess Guinevere)
-Nunnally seems to be the Guinevere the Lelouch and Suzaku (Arthur and Lancelot) fight over as Nunnally was Lelouch’s to start with, then became more on Suzaku’s side (reference to the episode where Lelouch, as Zero, was about to kidnap Nunnally before she set foot on the place where she officially announced herself as Governor, and then Suzaku intervenes, like Lancelot taking away Guinevere from Arthur)
-Both Lelouch (by the Order of the Black Knights) and Arthur (by Mordred) were betrayed once
-Arthur finding the sword in the stone was like Lelouch gaining the Geass, it changed their lives forever and resulted in them becoming King/Emperor.
-Both, if they did die from their final public wound, were killed by someone close to them (I think… Lelouch was killed by Suzaku, and, correct me if I’m completely mixed up, Arthur was killed by his relative – was it son or nephew or sth? – Mordred)
[Ignore this if you want to~
Note: If there was a third season it’d probably be something like 10 years later and that Nunnally’s probably suffered some ill-fated incident that leaves the world in ruins. On that note, even if that doesn’t happen, I’ll be writing a fanfic series for Code Geass Season 3 so HA!!! I’m sure other people will too, so even if the original animators don’t, we Lelouch-alive supporters can bathe ourselves in lovely fanfics~! XD]
I know its too late for this information but in the beginning of episode 21 of Code Geass R2 Suzaku’s sword is stuck in a rock sort of like the sword Excalibur that King Arthur uses.
Galahad, Gawain, Mordred, Percival, Tristan, and the more popular Lancelot are members of the Knights of the Round Table, which is based on the legend of King Arthur. All of the Knightmares were named after these Knights of the Round Table. Coincidentally, the group of elite knights in Code Geass is named Knights of Round. So now we know where the writers have their reference for the names.
“Counterpoint: No, I don’t think so. And here’s proof. Anya was supposed to be under Marianne’s Geass effect and quite possibly Charles’ too. However they both are “gone” or presumed dead, this Geass effect have been gone from Anya. That is quite logical not until Orange-kun uses Geass Canceller on her in the final episode. Why would he need to do that? One, he realized that Anya is STILL under Geass influence and hence, cancelled it. Two, he’s just wanted to show us that the Geass Canceller is still functioning and not just a face accessory to fit his “orange” persona.”
I wouldn’t agree that’s a counterpoint because although Anya still doesn’t have her memory, there is no proof that Orange-Kun uses his Geass Canceller on Anya. All you can see if his mechical eye being opened but no sign of the Geass sign that is shown on every geass user(Not including the immortality). But my counterpoint would be Nunally. Charles was killed by Lelouch in episode 21 but the geass he used on Nunally was still in effect until the final episode. It could be that she could have opened her eyes for in reality, lets say, walking. As far as Nunally’s legs, she would have to learn how to walk again, which may be the same for her eyes when she actually tried to opened her eyes for the key to the Damocles. IMO, let’s just wait until there’s proven facts, not throughts, to whether Lelouch is dead or alive. Whether a Season 3 / OVA / Movie comes out or not.
“Even when she was blind, she was able to tell someone if they are lying simply by holding their hands. It is a special gift for her – telepath. ”
The ability to discern if someone is lying or not does not equal full blown telepathy, genius.
I just came up with another similarity. Apparently Merlin mentioned the battle between a red dragon and a white dragon. Doesn’t that remind anyone of the battles between the Guren (red) and the Lancelot (white)? XD
Oh and btw, you can say what you want, but usually in animes when they don’t show someone’s face, it means it’s someone we already have seen. If Lelouch really wasn’t the cart-driver, why didn’t they just draw some random dude? That’s not-so-obviously stating that Lelouch—->cart driver. X3
I agree with Eldar. Explanation if you don’t get it: Simply put, when someone who is not born blind becomes blind, something happens that heightens their other senses, allowing them to form images of the environment around them, which is possibly why Nunnally can navigate her way around places despite being blind. OBVIOUSLY her feeling of touch has been heightened therefore by touching someone’s hand she feels their pulse. When you lie, your pulse rate escalates or something, and that’s how lie detectors work. All Nunnally does is feel the pulse.
Someone above said that Geass orders disappear after the Geass-caster is dead. This only applies for some Geasses. Lelouch’s for example, if he doesn’t order a specific time frame, probably goes forever, or at least until the person dies. However it is possible that once the Geass-user is dead, the order/effect weakens. And for Anya, Schniezel said something along the lines of her recovering her memory but because of Marianne often surfacing, she probably had chunks of memory missing until Orange negated it with the Geass Canceller.
This is a point to counter the comment made about CC talking to Marianne when Marianne wasn’t close as a counter to CC never talking to no one: CC was talking to Marianne through her heart as explained by Marianne herself, her Geass’s power was to travel into people’s hearts. It was not CC starting the conversation with Marianne but Marianne entering her ‘heart’ and talking with her. Talking inside her heart may have resulted in her talking physically hence leading to what we viewers see of her talking to herself. According to other sources (I don’t know if this is true), you can see a bit of Lelouch’s hair when the camera pans up REALLY close and the full script of conversations between CC and Marianne have been publicly released therefore CC probably WAS talking with Marianne in her heart even though we only hear her side of the story.
On a completely random note, I want to see the Knight of Nine (or whatever), the Knight of Rounds that doesn’t get a speaking role at all in the anime, appear in some official sequel/movie/OVA of Code Geass. It’s just plain unfair that she never gets a speaking role. XD And I want to know CC’s real name. And what happened to poor ol’ Suzaku who has to play Zero?! I simply can’t imagine him being diplomatic and political. He seems more of the type to charge right in and worry about the little details later, the worst thing to do in politics… ^.^’
Didnt read your whole comment,but the 1st thing you bring up is them conceling the drivers face. They did that purposely because Im petty sure it is him. Another thing is that C.C. wouldnt bring up the most hated person in history around other people in such a endearing way without having negative effects. If the driver wasnt him then Im pretty sure the driver wouldave thrown her off the wagon and left her. By the end he was hated by all the world,from the biggest to basically nobodies like comon labourers like the wagon driver would be if he wasnt Lulouch. My main thing about that scene was the conceled face,and how she openly talks to/about Lulouch.
!!hardcore lelouch wants to be alive only!! (lengthy) TO: BRIAN
if r2 is your support created by fans and not fact then its invalid.
lol do you not get the cold hard fact. there is no possible way in this anime that lelouch can have the code. there is no viable way after that that he is alive except for that. if you want to go on theory and hope basing your arguments on wishful thinking and a weak explanation with your character profiling then go ahead but once again its highly weak and very invalid. the arguments i made are fact that he can not in any way have that code. you know what ill even show you with your own game (which will unfortunatley feed the fire and distract you from the point i was making earlier). fact is lelouch is more willing to do what it takes then you think. though he does everything for a higher cause he is very much like his older brother in the sense that he doesnt care who gets in the way. did you completley miss the last few episodes where he has no remorse for anyone or in the entire two season anime for that fact. it can be argued that he softened up but he also never said spare this person on the battlefield.
though i do agree he is softer look at this as well. He has never hesitated to use dirty elaborate tricks in the past and has used c.c. as a disquise before. i mean thats the second basis i have for even thinking that up as a possibility. (first is that the maid has disquised as lelouch before). and really what is so cold hearted about having an immortal being get stabbed so that they can live in happiness. in that case i would have to profile you as a very optimistic or in denial person. so to end this profiling fiasco lets end with the fact that someone like him wouldnt just throw his life away so easily if given the proper mental state and time to think which he had both of. fact is though there is no way and i do mean logical way based on the anime so in other words no way that he absorbed his fathers code unless the writers just want to say a month from now oh he lived by absorbing the code.
i can even give you more to desupport the code since i had to explain it again from another person who said this:
Ok, this is what I got that proves how Lelouch has the Code and Geass, because unlike C.C., and Charles, who lost their Geasses because the people who contracted them died, Lelouch didn’t obtain C.C.’s Code and thus kept his Geass, while having the Code he obtained from Charles when he tried to strangle him. Lelouch therefore has achieved CODE GEASS.–Aramaeus (talk) 21:58, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
look i know everything i said up there is lenghty but you should take your time to read it and actually understand all of it because if you did you would already realize that the only hope and viable way for him to be alive is for c.c. to be his replacement. the rule goes regardless of who you get it from you must sacrifice your geass for immunity to geass, its transference. and once again he did not absorb anyones code. here are two more facts for support i didnt mention because i figured the so many ones up there would have given people a clue. dont you think they would have made a big deal about that long ago read the second comment i made all of that explains how thats impossible if you payed attention to the anime. let me guess he absorbed marianne as well right? since they both dissapear the same way. if you want to argue oh but he was touching him! no he also let go now wouldnt that be convienent if you didnt have to touch someone with the code to absorb it. second point lelouch has made physical contact with people before and has not given hallucinations to them either also supporting the he does not have the code fact(kiss with karren). look i want him to be alive and i know he is alive and the only real bulletproof way for him to be so is through c.c. taking the stab. there are just to many contradictory points for the way you guys are thinking of. the only possible hole which, is barley one due to the way animes are produced, is that c.c. was supposedly in the chapel saying that as he was killed. even then her reaction afterwards and what she sais is completley contradictory and like i said earlier an anomaly which stands alone.
You guys need better engrish. I get teh headaches reading.
If you can get the point of the post a few mistaken words and some grammar mistakes are meaningless. And, if you can’t understand the post, it’s all meaningless. So I see no reason to criticize them, unless your willing to point out and fix their mistakes, it’s just unconstructive and pointless.
Oh wow! I was away for some assignments and this is what I got back? I do not care whether my opinion or yours are correct or not. It does not even matter whether Lelouch is dead or not. It does not even matter if I lack “cold, hard evidence” while your opinions are all concise and precise unlike mine. I do not care if you are smarter in this matter than myself. What is important to me is that I stated my own opinion and you stated yours. Of course, people would get defensive to point out their opinions but there is no need to go to the length of flaming others in the process.
If I recall, Lelouch tells CC at one point that if she is a witch, he will become a warlock. During the final sequences with the Emperor, in that strange otherworld where his parents are trying to kill “the gods”, I felt an implication that Lelouch receives some sort of surge of power, or improved power. Certainly something changes about him, although it is never really stated. Pre-Emperor story arc, would he have been able to overpower Nunnally with the Geass? I’d say this all goes down the “Charles’ code” route, in terms of explanations.
It is possible as well that Lelouch intended to die, and didn’t realize he was immortal. Upon dying, the code turns on. I think that’s fairly accepted, no? CC’s wish was to die, but Lelouch didn’t seem interested in fulfilling it. Especially in season one, there were several points where he hinted that he’d rather the two of them stick to the end. They had an undeniably close bond, considering she was the only one who knew all of bullshit from start to finish. Even the pseudo-intimacy of her lounging about in his room, talking strategy in a state of near-undress. There were a lot of little touches that hinted at their journey through immortality together, which I think would be a fitting final trick on the world.
Anyway, just a possibility. Anime does enjoy the “open ending” concept. And I’m also getting tired of all the really interest megalomaniac protagonists getting knocked off just because of morality, haha.
Code Geass has been a huge sucsess, not only in Japan, but internationally as well. With all the money this show made for Sunrise and the writers, they wanted to leave the door open. They CLEARLY left room to revive the series if they want to. Why kill the goose that laid the golden egg? If the company and the writers have a bad fourth quarter and need some quick cash, they can make a straight to DVD movie that is guaranteed to sell. First rule of showbiz: always leave them wanting more.
As to Lelouch’s fate… he is niether alive nor dead yet; his story is not finished. To me he is in the same state he was in at the end of season 1.
Look for Lelouch and C.C’s return in season3/DVD “Code Geass: The Search for More Money”. I can almost gaurantee that at the very least we will get a bonus episode, set 50 years in the future with C.C’s next contract, or her and Lelouch still together, or just Kallen and the others reflecting on how the world has changed in that time and her memories of Lelouch, confirming his death–only available with the $500 complete boxed set of DVD’s. And I’ll probably have to buy it too, just to finally have closeure.
In my mind this isn’t the end, its just a cliffhanger season finale with an extended wait.
Remember, they did the EXACT same thing with deathnote. They made a final episode showing the aftermath with Ryuk reflecting of the only interesting human (Light) that he ever met. This episode was not aired in the US, and will probably only be available with the boxed set DVD.
Ultimately this is a buisness, they will give us closure if we are willing to pay enough for it.
Hey, this idea is better. I mean, for Lelouch to remain in the same state he was at the end of season 1. So now, he is neither dead or alive – leaving us with this uncertainty of a cliffhanger and makes us all wonder if there is any possibility for season 3.
In the end, it’s all about the profit reaping, isn’t that right? Even so, I’m still a fan.
I just watched episode 25 again, and noticed something that I don’t think has been mentioned yet… I can’t help but notice that Lelouch didn’t say he would die for his sins–Suzaku did–Lelouch only said he would disappear for them. Its subtle things like that that make me wonder; I mean they dropped an atom bomb on Nunally but she survived. How? You had to pay attention, the other tram was still in the background behind her.
Just to elaborate on my thoughts a bit…
Lelouch is not dead.
Lelouch is not alive.
Lelouch is “Spocked”.
Lenord Nimoy told the makers of Star Trek that “Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan” was his last one. Write in the death of Spock and make it a good one. At the time, Nimoy was a big star, Star Trek was seeing its lowest point, and he didn’t want a cheesy 1960’s sci-fi show typecasting him. The other cast members career’s were in the toilet, so they were onboard for a strait to video part 3.
So they did what he asked. Spock died and the movie ended with his funeral. But test audiences went nuts; people were literally sobbing as they left the theater. To see a character that they had invested so much emotional energy in over the years die, and die to save his friends no less, made some very sad pandas. So they added in a bit at the end that left the door open, that let the audience hope against hope. That way, when part 3 came out, people would have had time to deal with it. They would better accept Spock isn’t there anymore.
What happened? The movie wound up being a huge commercial and critical sucsess. It was so good its momentum carried us through 8 more movies and 4 more TV series (some of them absoulutely dreadful). Suddenely Star Trek wasn’t draging Nimoy down anymore, it was now his claim to fame. Couple that with backing a dumptruck full of money up to his house and… Spocks back! In fact, he is the only original character still alive in “the next generation” era!
In quantum physics there is a classic experiment known as Schroedinger’s cat. A cat is placed in a sealed box with a gun. The gun is triggered by the decay of a single particle. If the particle decays, the cat dies. If not, the cat lives. But quantum particles have the weird property of existing in BOTH states until they are observed. You don’t find out which parallel universe you are in until you open the box.
Code Geass’s timeline is actually based on this concept. As you other fans probably realize, Code Geass is set in a parallel universe that was created by one difference in the timeline. In our universe Britain was defeated by Julius Ceaser. In their universe Britain resisted the invasion and continued as a seperate nation, apart from the Roman Empire.
A movie was made “Code Geass: Nightmare of Nunnally” that followed yet another timeline where Lelouch got invincibility as his Geass instead of mind control.
So is Lelouch alive or is he dead?
Both. We need to wait till we open the box to find out which of those dimensions we are in. (That box being the $500 super special collector’s DVD box of course.)
I was just thinking about this a bit more…
There are four manga’s in Japan.
Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion
Code Geass: Suzaku of the Counterattack
Code Geass: Nightmare of Nunnally
Code Geass: Tales of an Alternate Shogunate
Technically, Lelouch is definitely still alive in three other timelines and possibly(probably) dead in one (I still want closure on that though). The only one we’ve seen so far is “Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion”. Maybe the plan is for the series is to start over in another timeline. Maybe Lelouch and C.C will get a second chance to live happily ever after in “Code Geass: Tales of an Alternate Shogunate”? Your thoughts?
lol! i cant imagine lelouch with the spock look. neways, i did give some thoughts about this alternate dimension before. remember, this is a sunrise show. if this should happen, code geass is another franchise opportunity for sunrise and this will end up just like gundam. think this, code geass: setsuna of the rebellion
Yeah, that’s my biggest fear–that Sunrise will so completely bastardize the show that my final answer to “is Lelouch alive or dead?” winds up being “I really stopped caring after the fourth reboot.”
P.S. just want to clarify my last post, Gundam is still great. By “bastardize the series” with too many poor quality franchizes I’m refering to Star Trek, not Gundam (I was referencing my own previous post). The last trek movie was so dreadful it ruined my pleasent memories of what came before it…
Read star trek novels.
This is probably an invalid point but another method of Lelouch surviving is this: It is stated in I think ep 20 that someone with a Code can take another Code while someone with an ‘immature’ Geass cannot, i.e. Lelouch may not have DIRECTLY taken the Emperor’s Code, but via proxy, i.e. CC who would have been the only living candidate revealed in the series eligible for taking on his code, leaving her with two Codes. Then, when Lelouch’s Geass finally reached its peak (which helps to explain his constant Geass-ing of his troops – it is very like his character to kill two birds with one stone, one to help people despise him for Zero Requiem and the other to further his survival), he took on the Code. Remember that there is a small timeskip between the end of the battle between the Black Knights, etc. and Lelouch therefore it’s not impossible that he took on one code from CC, leaving them both immortal. CC may have been crying because to her, life is more painful than death (as her constant desire for it shows), meaning that she may have believed that eternal life is a far worse punishment for Lelouch than simply death. It fits with all the plot so far as far as I know [correct me if I’m wrong!!!!]. Plus the animators can come back and make a killing out of it in “R3”. BTW, interesting note is that even in the Japanese version, it’s R2 rather than Hangyaku ni (hangyaku=rebellion, ni=2) or something like that… which may indicate a point I find only semi-valid (R2 is pronounced the same as L2 in Japanese hinting that Lelouch had recieved the code in the end, and Code Geass, the title, indicating that he did, etc.)
Another possibility is that you plain just become mortal when you lose the Code rather than dying straight off unless you… stab yourself or something.
Writer Ichiro Okouchi has already confirmed he died. It was the price he had to pay to create a better world.
My new theory :
C.C. cloned Lelouch, went to the World of C and reclaimed Lelouch’s memories into the new clone. He died! And then revived!
*awaits fanwriters to chance upon this post.
First of all, in response to Loba (the poster before me), the whole cloning idea can’t be deducted from any part of the series. Sorry, but your theory is preposterous (haha, I can’t believe I just said that).
Second of all, I want to point out something. Out of pure laziness, I didn’t read all 25 comments before this one, but I’m gonna say this anyways.
After Lelouch’s father was supposedly shot dead by his own son, his body didn’t disappear nor was he revived elsewhere. He simply stood up in the same body shortly after his mortal life had ended.
Now if Lelouch were to have become immortal after Suzaku stabbed him, would he not have simply woken from his dead slumber? And even if he had managed to convince everyone he was dead yet alive, what would Japan do with his body? Bury it, burn it, Lelouch would still be alive. But then C.C would have to take the body without suspicion. Now I’m sure the makers would at least have shown that if it actually happened.
Episode 25, out of air time!
To: Phildog
Are you an idiot? No like serious offense intended, but even in NARUTO people come back to life all the time. Seriously, in the most yelled-at-unoriginal anime (well sort-of I don’t really care), people COME BACK TO LIFE! Just because somebody died doesn’t mean they don’t come back. For one thing, I’ll give you a challenge: Go count the number of times someone with a Code has revived in the Code Geass series. Just because Lelouch is dead doesn’t mean he won’t come back. It’s actually really annoying how easy reviving people seems in a lot of shounen anime. It’s ‘poof’ *REVIVES!* “I’M ALIVE~!”
To: ZeN
Unfortunately, if you haven’t noticed, a lot of random things happen in CGR2, like it doesn’t show how Nunnaly survived the FREIJA blast, or how the new Zero got a hold of the Emperor’s sword (you can check, the sword that Lelouch holds when fighting Schniezel in the battle with the Damocles, it’s the same one that Suzaku stabs him with, which is really kinda funny… XD), or how Anya ended up in the same place as Orange, etc. it’s a rather… ‘unflowing’ anime. There are a lot of things that don’t make sense.
Some food for thought: HOW THE HECK DID LELOUCH CATCH UP WITH SUZAKU WHEN CATCHING THE CAT?! I THOUGHT HE WAS MAJORLY UNFIT!!! And from the look of the amount of stairs to go, he had a LONG way to go after he seemed to get tired. Also, how did he heave the bomb AND the scuba into the sea when he blew up the JLF? I’ve been scuba diving before and I assure you that the gear isn’t light enough for someone like Lelouch to be able to carry along with a bomb…
i really wish that lelouch will be alife but i totally dun understand if he’s alive why he dun wan to stay wif his sis since that wat he wish the most isn’t it?!?!
Let’s take guilford (Cornelias knight, hope spelled name right) as an example.
We clearly saw him die, being sucked in by the fleia and yet he was alive, he was “sunrised” (love this word :D). In Gundam seed mwu la flaga also died proctecting the archangel, we saw his helmet floating in space, but he returned in seed desiny.
I believe Lelouch will revive the same way.
or Lelouch might have taken Charles code, if so you could interpret CC last sentence :”The power of kings geass makes lonely….Thats not right, lelouch” Assuming Lelouch took Charles code, CC wouldnt be the only immortal one anymore, since she and lelouch would continue to live on together.They met because of the geass etc.
another possibility: he has taken CC code, since lelouch has already fullfilled the contract. He shouted something about CC real wish when he entered World of C for the first time, which might have been to be loved by someone not through the geass (remember CC geass was to be loved, and later she couldn’t distinguish wether the people loved her because of her geass or if they had real feelings). Hence he succesfully took over her code. When they left World of C, CC cut her finger. Normally the wound would heal fast, but lelouch gave her a plaster (the patch thingy), so she might already have lost her code back then.
I think Lelouch is still alive. To end the series with c.c. asking a question aimed at Lelouch is enough. For the idea that he then wouldn’t repent for his sins i think can be justified by him not knowing if he would survive or not. He also said in the episode that he would gamble on geass. Also for the myth about geass not lasting after death is still plausible if you use the idea that Lelouch did inherit Charles code so then Anya’s memories wouldn’t revert back considering someone was still alive with that particular code. Either way this was a great anime. I did wish it had a little more closure and also i think Lelouch should have gotten more recognition atleast from all black nights which upset me the most. But this was another anime i started watching on adult swim and got to interested to wait a week for each new episode and watched the rest in 7 hours at one time plus like deathnote. It also gets props for having a hell of a lot better ending then deathnote.
In my opinion,
I think Lelouch is dead. As much as I hate to believe that he is dead, the facts that I’ve been reading all seem to tell that he is, sadly no longer living. It is also quite sad as I happened to see this episode on my birthday. 😦 and something else that annoys me is that he died with the world hating him and the black knights think he is just evil. At least Zerozaku, Kallen, Nunnally and C.C knows what good he did. I’m really sorry people I think he has died. Plus it was confirmed by the writers as well that he did pass away, as it was on the magazines final death list 😦 But the only thing that is giving me hope is the literal CODE GEASS controversy.
But for some people who wants to think he is alive, there are many website including this one and many more sites that have a few good reasons why he could be dead or alive. Plus Wiki is also debating whether or no they should write that he is dead or alive.
ALL HAIL LOULOU!!!
Plus I keep on playing madder sky and continued story over and over again until I fall asleep or get too sad.
And I hope Nunnally is treated well by damn Zerozaku. Oh and Geass controversy Schnitzel. And which one would be better for Lelouch? Kallen Stadfield (Kouzuki) or mysterious C2 or C.C? I prefer Kallen TBQH (To be quite Honest)
THE SWORD OF ALASKA, THE KNIGHT OF ZERO AND THE 99th EMPEROR OF THE HOLY BRITANNIAN EMPIRE! What is with the of’s he hmmmmmmmmmmmm?
LELOUCH DID DIE. We saw him get stabbed, bleed, fall and stop breathing. The *point* is, did he come *back* to life? I think given what we’ve been presented in the series it is safe to say he did indeed come back. He was given the Code of V.V. and was resurrected before he was buried.
We’ll know for sure in the third season of Geass, confirmed by Sunrise.
wow, people are still commenting on this post?
About the new season, Sunrise only said they didn’t want to leave the franchise alone because it made so much damn money. It almost certainly won’t be a direct follow on from the events in the last one. The ending was happy, perfect and solved all the problems the world had. More likely what they’ll do is have a Code Geass Otome or possibly a remake of the second season as what is was originally planned as(thats what Brian wants anyway) or maybe an entire re-imagining set in a diferent time frame with different characters but keeping the general feel of the show and keeping the Geass part aswell.
BTW, the creators said that Lelouch is dead, although thats only for a given value of dead
Based on what the writer said, and your post here, I believe that Lelouch is dead, although I really want him to stay alive.
However, for Suzaku killed Lelouch, that isn’t making sense, since Suzaku always tries to avoid killing people, especially when that person is his closest friend. Along the series in R2, he blamed Lelouch for the death of Euphy and Shirley, now he’s making the same mistake.
Another thing that disappoint me is that the relationship between Lelouch and C.C., Kallen isn’t developed further. The duo kissed Lelouch suddenly and that’s all. Lelouch never said he liked anyone and no further love story or something like that.
It’s good fanservice to only give hints as to LuLu’s love interest cause then everyone can root for their favorite ”x” tryst.
I’ve got to give Sunrise it’s due, they are true marketing geniuses!
Here it is over 7 months later and we are all still talking about CG!
However, I don’t think they left the ending ambiguous to only resurrect the series later, I think it was the same reason as the harem questions; you, as the fan, gets to decide what you want to believe.
Though they did officially say he’s dead. And in my opinion, it really doesn’t matter whether he is dead for sure or not, he is dead at least for the narrative’s sake. It makes thematic sense to end it this way, or else the story makes no literary sense. It would be lovely if Romeo and Juliet didn’t die, but instead went on to establish an clan better than either the two former ones. But it wouldn’t be great tragedy then. It would be ‘meh’.
The writers did their job of getting us to care about these characters(even with the plot holes big enough to fly a Knightmare through!) and if you cried at the end, well, their job is done!
So you can debate till the end of time whether Lelouch is really dead or not…blah, blah, blah. It matters not, for the story is done with his death as the final climax. (pink sword and all, lol!).
This is tragic drama folks, and that’s how it’s supposed to end.
As far as the un-resolved question, like C.C.’s name, what is Code and Geass, WTF’s with Jupiter, etc… The authors can address these things later with other stories and other characters, but not with Lelouch. His story is fin. And it make a great story done that way, IMHO.
One other non-sequitor point to bring up.
This part really amused me; his name- First of all I don’t think R2 stands for R.R.=L.L. People need to remember Le Louch is Britannian which is to say of European ancestry. So his name is LeLouch Lamperouge, not Rurushu etc… that spelling/pronunciation is for the ease of Japanese audiences. (Plus Romaji is just a way to show how to pronounce Japanese words for the western person, the correct Japanese spelling would be in kanji not western letters.)
The writers were deliberate in his name, in my opinion.
“Le” is “the” in french– “louch” is “shady, disreputable” in English and French, and comes from the Latin originally and in that language also means-“blind or clouded in one eye” — “Lamper-rouge” is French and means, “glowing light of red color”
So his name can translate to “One Evil Eye Glowing Red ” which does describe him quite well. It was not an accident they writers named him that. So I think R2 just means “Round 2” or perhaps “Revolution 2” as it wasn’t finished in season 1.
Which then may also bring up the question of whether the writers also thought about Charles and Marianne naming him Lelouch; do his parents have a premonition or a plan of what he will do in the future? Did Charles give him the sir name Lamperouge on purpose, when he sent him to Japan?
Or did the writers think that part through?
Maybe they just thought is was a cool and descriptive name to give him. To me it’s an interesting point to ponder.
Also, to all the people who say CG was bad writing, nope it’s not. It may be melodramatic, over- the -top and not make logical sense sometimes( it is fantasy after all!) but not “BAD” writing. It did what it set out to do; get you all to watch it AND care for the main characters. Maybe not like them, maybe even hate them sometimes, but to have an emotional connection with them. They made us feel the highs, the lows, the fear and love and hate, and in the end made us cry for them. That’s GOOD writing! Kudos Sunrise, you evil mind fuckers! lollollol!
Hes dead ’nuff said.
I’m in the “He’s still alive and immortal” camp I guess.
The CC praying part can be interpreted different ways. One way of course being she’s sad about Lelouch’s impending dead, or it could also be for his impending immortality. She considers it a curse, and might have also meant that becoming immortal removes Lelouch from being a viable candidate for her release.
I know people dodge death in the show so much I expected Lelouch to turn into a log with his clothes after being stabbed, but I don’t think it was his maid, or cc getting stabbed there. It would make his monologue kind of odd, nunnally’s reaction to him dieing also very odd, and frankly it’d be ploy that would be seen through rather quickly (at least, I would hope, but apparently the maid somehow was able to pull off wearing a dumb mask).
I see a lot of reference to the Ichiro interview citing that he said he’s dead, and so that’s that. Since this issue we’re all having is about interpretation, I have to go ahead and mince words here. Yes, he died, regardless of if you think he’s immortal afterwards. A clear cut response would have been “Lelouch died, and is not an immortal” but instead we get “Lelouch dead!? Was it a good one or a bad one!?” which doesn’t even make a hell of a lot of sense, because he’s clearly hyping the mystery by throwing more wrenches stuffed into red herrings in to people’s gears.
The other part from that interview that gets used as a “lelouch is perma-dead” arguement is that he said something about Lelouch dieing as the price to create his perfect world. This doesn’t contradict the immortality arguement at all. He died to pay that price.. exactly. The “price” is not negated by being immortal. He’d have to leave everyone he cares about behind (except cc). He would be literally destroying his own world, to create his new one, as a parallel to the same plan for the entire world.
Just to be petty, Interviews are a rather shaky source for a canon argument anyway. Ichiro could have said Lelouch was a duck in a man constume all along in the interview. what matters is what transpired in the series.
Lumping on top the cute circumstancial evidence like the initials LL like VV and CC, the unneccesarily overdressed cart driver, the paper crane, and CC’s cart-ride conversation, and the vague Code + Geass rules we’re given leaving the Emperor’s death scene a plausible source for a Code (thus immortality), and that leaves us aaaat:
Nowhere.
I made my decision. I stated it in the first sentence. If Ichiro wanted to make a straight, no nonsense ending, he could have. He didn’t, because it looks like he intentionally wanted it to be up for interpretation. We could have simply recieved Lelouch soliloquising his immortality plans, as he does quite often, during his death, or even later as part of the cart scene. The flipside to that would be giving us closure that he’s dead, instead of a rushed “Don’t let the body cool” switch scene. We the viewer don’t get a funeral, we don’t find out any of the immediate after info. We get narration from the viewpoint of a character not fully in “the know” and then skip forward what seems to be approximately no more than nine months (if the pregancy can be considered the timeline where Orange is in the field, and CC’s on the cart). A lot has been left in the gutter for us to fill ourselves.
So start filling! Pick a side, it doesn’t matter which. Start filling those holes with whatever supports your argument, because there’s plently of material to go around, and then write stupidly lengthy posts on websites to convince others your POV somehow got a better angle than theirs! Welcome to the internet! REJOICE!
I too believe that Lelouch is alive and well. (Not to mention immortal) There are plenty of evidence that can substantiate his survival in the aftermath of his ‘pseudo death’. For istance, the cart scene with C.C. was a strong hint that he’s alive. Keep in mind that C.C. can only speak to those who are still alive, Eg Marianne when she was still in Anya’s body. Furthermore, the way she ‘questioned’ Lelouch may also point to something. While some may believe it’s a rhetorical question, the way her eyes were swayed towards the driver is another indication that Lelouch is still alive and is possibly the cart driver. While it maybe difficult to discren the characteristics of the driver other than his clothing, there is a strong connection resemblance in the physical characteristics (such as the thin and relatively lengthy frame) in both Lelouch and the cart driver. In addition, the developers could have simply implemented a random driver rather than one who’s face is covered(almost). Call me over-observant or whatnot, but it is still a plausible argument. As for the rest, i think they’re convincing, though i believe the key scene is clearly at the final stretch of Episode 25.
Novacute… I pretty much said that already. Read some of my comments (I’m the only person called anonymous). After all, that’s the most by-the-book anime trick I know. Maybe I didn’t state it as clearly but that was in fact one of the most solid proofs of Lelouch being in the ‘alive & immortal camp’. Also, freeze the scene when they zoom in on the cart driver. On the top left (I haven’t seen it for a while, but I’m pretty sure somewhere there) you can see a corner of dark hair which happens Lelouch’s hair colour, further supporting this. We’re suffering a financial depression in this world right now. Why WOULDN’T the artists make another season to make some more money? It’s a very logical and realistic conclusion if you look around you on the streets.
Lelouch is alive easy mode.
Close up on cart drivers face, though covered a little, purple eyes, same hairdo by what is visible, its Lelouch, C.C talks to him, not to herself. Mythbusted damn it. There is no point in giving a character never seen ONCE in the entire show a closeup on the face, and he just so happens to look exactly like Lelouch.
but the geas on nunnaly died off
i think leloch is alive cause at the end c.c. was talking to the driver and said in quot isnt that right leloch.
HES ALIVE! the 25 episode you can see on of nunalys birds close to the driver aka lelouch and when c.c.is talking her eyes avert to the driver aka lelouch forget what the magizen say hes alive.
i need stright awnsers from the writer aggggg!
losers
exept y2k hes cool
wow i cannot beleive people are still debating this interpret it how you want thats why they ended it how they did all i know is they ended the anime with cc making a reference to Lelouch i think it is obvious she is talking to the driver either way it didnt show him and it also didnt give lelouch a burial enclosing him for good so we realy dont know either way its not real unfortunately move on great show entertaining i hope sunrise follows through like they said they are with more code geass. ohh and go watch school days all the way through just finished that today you think this had a bad ending.
There is one other myth that you forgot remember when the maid looked like lelouch then she could of taking his place and died for him so everyone would think he attoned for his sins and did you guys see th GIF on youtube.com where you see his face that is not fanmade i traced it back to the original writer and creators of code Geass and they allso made some hidden film or cut film where he mysteriously disappears or the alterintive ending where he takes his fathers code and as in myth one the one that is plasible they pull it off of that and there is suppose to be a show with him living and i’m also saying that i think he is alive and with all my shows the main character dies or runs away and the show is over Like off of Death Note. Where Light dies but in that case there was no ? he died unlike this one and i wrote to the writers to give me a striaght answer for this mystical ?.
yessssssssssssssssssssssssssss go watch the last episode in english dub i just finished watching it on adult swim
yes that tells u that at least bandai thins he is alive lol
yeah now if u watch that and say that it is obvious that they are implying that he is still alive s u c k a d i c k i trust bandais english dub rather than some random persons sub yessss
get OG SMASHED
The name of the last episode says it all…
req·ui·em (rkw-m, rkw-)
n.
1. Requiem Roman Catholic Church
a. A mass for a deceased person.
b. A musical composition for such a mass.
2. A hymn, composition, or service for the dead.
I seriously mourned…
people say hes immortal because of geass right? well Right before he fell down and died he passed his geass onto sazaku.
Lunariia, you’re forgetting that Requiem was part of the term “Zero Requiem”.
It doesn’t have to point to the death of Lelouch.
It could point to the death of the old world and the birth of the new one.
Oh sorry… Missed something…
To be added on:
That was the entire point of the Zero Requiem, to destroy the world, and then recreate it.
For Everyone Wondering If Lelouch Is Dead, No He’s Not. This Is Why:
1.- Farmer Face Was Blocked Off
2.- How Did C.C Get A Free Cart Ride?
3.- The Lastest Anime Magazine Over In Japan Listed Lelouch Vi Brittania As Dead. So What Happened To The Name Lelouch Lamperouge???
4.- How I Know All This? Because Its Simple To Notice.
5.-Also, There Is A Chance That Lelouch Absorbed His Father’s Code When He Banished Or Destroyed Him. Since It Was Absorbed Not Taken,He Could Use Geass And Be Immortal. Pretty Nice Combination.
6.- About The Name Part, In One Episode Lelouch Mentions That He Has Two Names Or Titles So That Proves That Theory.
7.- Lelouch Wouldnt Have Killed Himself Just Like That, He Might Have Knew Aout He Having His Father’s Code.
8.- To Prove About The Code Absorbtion, Nunnally Suddenly HAd Her Mother’s Geass. Pretty Interested.
9.- I Know These Things Just Like I Know How Come Light Yagami Failed Beating A Little 8 Year Old.
And 10.- Im God. I Know Things Bla Bla Bla
If You Have Questions Or You Would Like To Question Me, Message Me At My E-mail lucarioxae@aol.com
The Truth Is Revealed Lived With it
No one really GOT the very trick of the of the show…
Also, the creator…will never ever tell the truth!
…I don’t believe those official stuff It’s not about how good or evil he had done , it’s about GEASS and its tricks!
Did anyone got an idea that Lelouch also casts his Geass to us?…ordering only to view his death!? …didn’t you all noticed that he already using his
Geass in the very beginning whenever you watched the opening song? like 50 times?
That is the reason why they made the concept of the story!
He made us believed that he truly died because of his GEASS!
For me, I really believed that he got Charles code because it’s too obvious! and it was located right on his neck!
Also, I never saw any right answer of what is the real name of C.C., it’s practically common sense, her real name is “CODE GEASS”…Lelouch: Kodo gias on episode 11
And, people have no choice but to admit that he’s alive or else, they themselves proved that they have been played by his Geass tricks…
hmmmmm…. Im still not sure if his still alive or dead but i just wanna ask what does this statement really means???
CC Says:
“Geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you… well, I guess thats a little wrong… eh, Lelouch”
Ok even if you scratch away the lelouch thing what does the statement really means?
lelouch death? it’s true oh!no i can’t…. false
The myth here is that Lelouch is either dead or alive.
The truth is simple;
Okouchi (the head writer) and Taniguichi (the Director) stated in the November 2008 issue of Newtype that Lelouch was dead.
However, Sunrise stated in the January 2009 issue of Animedia magazine;
Translation:
“You have all shown us a lot of kind appreciation in making the DVDs and CDs so popular.
We were truly blessed to have such passionate fans…truly, thank you all.
Lelouch may have died (?) but Geass itself will not.
The show has just ended, yet we feel it might be a good idea to make something else.
In any case, we might be able to announce something in the near future…”
The (?) is not my addition it is as it appears in the article.
So the original writer and director may not want a new Code Geass but Sunrise certainly does and the “May be dead” and (?) in their statement clearly shows that Lelouch will be in any future CG series that comes out.
It reminds me of Char Aznable from the original Gundam 0079. The Roman Album Extra number 35 states explicitly that Char died at Aboa Qu, but yet he comes back in Zeta Gundam.
Lelouch is the same kind of character, the anti-hero with the mask who cannot rest until Sunrise is done with him.
So the Myth bust has been “busted” and debunked to a point.
People who claim that Okouchi and Taniguichi intended Lelouch to die are correct, however, those two fine gentlemen do not own Code Geass. Sunrise does, and their word is the actual “Word of God” as the fans like to say and they’ve made their position very clear….Lelouch is alive.
What’d I say back in July of 2009?
That Sunrise would make more Code Geass and lo and behold here we have a new Code Geass anime coming out.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-04-22/code-geass-gaiden-bokoku-no-akito-project-announced
And look at that.
Mr Okouchi and Mr Taniguichi have been ousted from the project.
Now why do you suppose that is??
Hmmmmmmmmmm?
Because they made the Shoji Kawamori mistake (of Macross fame) and said the series was over and the protagonist dead.
To which Sunrise has said:
“Wrong answer pals!”
I’ll bet Lelouch will stay “dead” until after this OVA series has ended.
Then, Ooh, by some power of corporate-retcon he will have “acquired” a Code (probably Charles’ ^_^ )
Rule NUMERO UNO when talking about Sunrise.
No character is ever DEAD! Period!
Mu la Flaga of Gundam SEED is a good example of this.
Nunally has Geass the ability to ‘see’ someone’s true intentions thats how she knew lelouch’s plan and that one bitch was trying to con the japanese
Lelouch didn’t have Geass when he ‘died’ and don’t kid yourself by saying he was wearing his contacts because if he did have his geass than he would just make the crowds of people obey
Finally Lelouch made a contract with Zerozaku
Lulu follower you spelled Alaska like the snowy state next to canada you dumbass
To people who said that Lelouch wouldn’t give up his life like that and could simply use other ways to survive (ie. use his Geass to deceive people, have someone else die for him etc.), you’re all insulting him. He was WILLING to die to atone for his sins and to give Nunnally the world she had always wanted. If he had conned everyone into thinking he was dead while he was alive and well, he would not have atoned for his sins and he wouldn’t be able to live with himself. If he survived, it would not be because he planned it.
Point is, I WANT SEASON 3! >.<
But you guys are still skirting around the fact that the writers have CONFIRMED Lelouche’s death 😛
Dont believe me? Go look it up.
you guys are forgeting he used geass on god and could have told god to make him imortal
He is not alive, CC is talking to his ghost like she did with his mom.
She can talk to the dead somehow.
You have to be willing to transfer the code unless you have that gate like Charles had.
CGfan, I agree with you, Lelouch is dead, and Orange RULEZ!!!!!!!
In my opinion, i would give a 60/40 alive/dead status for him.. why?
all will root whether he received the code or not. this is from the time when he was in a face-to-face situation with charles. how the code is being transferred was not explained. so from how charles got his code from V.V., we can safely assume that it can be taken by force. it’s quite improbable to say that V.V. gave it away.
now how could he have gotten the code?
one, charles could have given it to him as his curse on lelouch saying suffer a world under his brother’s. or suffer the agony of being an immortal with your kind of world.
two, he got it without knowing.
three, he forcefully took charles code during the process when the code was in contact with him. so that he would be able to fulfill his duty. Reasons? part of his plan, as a precautionary measure. if he died without creating the world where nunnaly can exist and creating a world of tomorrow, then all his past actions would be for nothing.
onto to determine if he got the code from then on (on the premise he got the code):
1. nunnaly (again ^^)
yes, many speculation are on nunnaly, whether she was a telepath or not. IMO, no she’s not. if she was, then just by holding hands, she would have known that lelouch was zero way back in R1, since she was able to hold his hand several times.
I see nunnaly, because she became blind, developed a special ability to recognize lies just like how a lie detector works. Temperature, sweating, palpitations, heart beat rate, etc. Body rythm fluctuate when people lie. If a person is adept or very good in lying, then he could pass a lie detector.
So IMO, what nunnaly experienced was the code activating (during the near death experience) of the code holder. Just like when Lelouch touched c.c. after being being shot, and suzaku when in contact (through the frame) with c.c. in R1 when she nearly died to let zero escape.
2. suzaku received the geass and/or code??
what lelouch gave suzaku is probably one of this two or both: his geass(eye) or the geass(responsibility as zero: just the burden or as a contract ). if lelouch has the code then he could possibly grant geass. but not the code because suzaku doesn’t have a mature geass.
3. orange-kun
yep, just like you said, saying that he was smiling won’t justify that lelouch was alive. but if he knew that lelouch was really dying.. then wouldn’t he show some sadness? anyway, i give this a 50/50.
4. suzaku’s tears and C.C.’s
i think suzaku’s was real for he knows that he just killed his friend. C.C.’s on the other hand is open to many interpretation. It can be because lelouch was about to die or because lelouch was about to achieve immortality. Of course she should be glad if the latter was the case, but on her background, we could say that her opinion of immortality is not a good thing.
She even stated that it was the price of using geass on people.. isn’t it the same for her? most of the successful geass user had have their share of immortality.
5. the cart incident (the root of all speculations)
first the cart driver. yes, several anime’s have had ending cliffhangers such as this. but let’s dive into it further. Why would someone wear something like that during a not so hot day? seeing how C.C. laid there under the sun. suspicious isn’t it? and just above his head was the pink paper crane that one could have mistook as his. Then we see C.C.. If she brought it with her, isn’t it more natural for the crane to be beside her and not above near the driver? plus, the final piece, talking by herself out loud with a stranger isn’t it a bit strange? plus she tilted her head again towards the stranger. if she was just talking to the spirit lelouch, wasn’t she already looking up? why tilt her head further? ^^
6. final, the R2 in the title
Brief explanation; R2 is L2 is Lelouch Lamperouge. Taking into note not Lelouche Vi Brittania. Though again this could be debatable since Charles wasn’t given his codename. In my opinion, the two letter code was given only to the long time code bearers which was only C.C. and V.V. What could have been the reason of including an R2 in the title? the only thing which could have a natural relation with the story is if you compare it with C2 and V2. the only successful immortals in the series.
7. Lelouche Vi Brittania death status
Lelouch Lamperouge. Taking into note not Lelouche Vi Brittania. The name had died, just like how kallen said that what the people needed was a NAME to blame onto. literal translation since she said ‘namae to hito’ which was ‘name and a person’ in japanese.
with all the bit’s and pieces, i voted for a 60/40. Why? in my opinion, why are the hints available? coincidence? from a 5 episode stretch when he was able(probable) to get a code up to the title. why must creator’s put them all in place. It means that they had the idea of making him alive in the end. That’s why i think there’s is still a chance unless they say that Lelouch Lamperouge is dead. ^^
Now, i know that some feels like it is a betrayal of all the expectations of all those that were left behind if he was alive. but in my opinion, it is not really the case. does it matter if he lives afterwards, it was his choice. he was set to destroy and create the world, he did. he also had a contract with C.C. that she needed to be loved, so the choice was to live. Could it not be another reason for him? should we take out his life because he was the martyr that should be dead in the ending.. i think it all depends on the viewer’s taste.
ok if nunnaly have some telepathic powers why didnt she knew about lelouch being zero on season 1….? welll question not related to the topic….
in all honesty, i think the writers overlooked a lot of things a fan would see immediately.
i think they made so many geass abilities and exceptions to the rules that they lost track and accidentally made a couple paradoxes.
i gotta admit the cart guy is weird though. normally when they hide a character like that its cus they want it to be surprising, it happens in a lot of shows.
the maker of code geass said the cart driver was supposed to be lelouch.
I want Lelouch to be alive, i don’t want closure to such an amazing anime. Lelouch is probably 1 of 4 different anime characters out of the hundreds I’ve seen that I actually like, so why would I want him to atone for anything and kill himself off like that. I hope he’s not dead, and even if a surprise season 3 did come and bust bc people want closure to the anime, I would still buy it because this anime is among the gods of anime. Hate all you want.
hes alive because i say so
I completely agree with this post the anime would be so crappy if he was still alive. The completely epic, tear jerking ending would be completely pointless. I think that the last 10 minutes of this anime are among the greatest things I’ve ever seen in storytelling. To resurrect Lelouch would not bring this series justice. The poetry of the whole thing would be off, it would just be another one of those crappy never die heroes that dragonball z had. I’m not knocking that series, it was really good for it’s time. I just happen to think there is something lame about a hero that cannot die.
Factually, it does go either way but personally, i believe he is still alive. First of all, their is a paper crane in the cart and Lelouch learned how to make it because he was taught by Nunally. there is no more unstated proof i have left….
However, he belongs to the other side now…making anything or remaking it will just kill the legacy left behind.
Thats all,…u can play me in starcraft on iccup add… SarBeast00
oh yeah and btw…. he is definitely alive…if u cant tell that from the last 1 minute then u should close this page and go to sleep….
But once again….there should be no more edits or additions to the series
I believe Lelouch is dead. For one thing, why kill a character in such a sad way to bring them back. It seems pointless. The point of a death like that is to open your eyes. Seriously, imagine is Jesus stayed alive for more than three days. For one thing, the show would be terrible if he was alive. I wasn’t that huge of a fan of the show until R2, so if he lived, I’d be like “well he didn’t learn anything.” I hated him so much in R1, it would make me hate him more if he did that to Suzaku. The creator of Code Geass said Lelouch was dead. That means it’s confirmed.
Another thing is, the Geass effect lasts forever, even if the person is dead. They never implied Charles’s effect wore off of Milly and Rivalz either. Lelouch’s effect probably stayed on Suzaku. The only reason Nunnally’s broke was because they needed a plot twist. Anya’s effect wasn’t active anymore because Marianne was dead. Her consciousness was gone and couldn’t occupy her mind anymore. CC cries when Lelouch dies, that’s proof enough to me. AND DON’T say she’s said because he’s immortal. She would be happy if he was.
1st: ok if you are CC would u say Lelouch’s name out load to a stranger. think about it! Lelouch is the “evil” emperor everybody hate. why would she say this out load to a stranger and bring attention to herself.
2nd: okay if you are CC who wish to die and your dark apprentice that you just spend 2 years training so that he can kill you, suddenly die. will you be happy and smiling? i would be piss off and mad as hell! If CC wish to be loved, then she just lost a close friend who could possibly fulfill that desire, she would also be piss off! CC smiling at the end make no sense.
3rd:paper crane! enough said!
4th: R2?????? hello??? especially in a series where name is important
5th:Lelouch is the greatest liar in the world! you guys fell for it!!
6th:ok so Lelouch just destroy the world…. he say he’s going to recreate the world. so how is he gonna do that being dead? NOTE he say “HE” is going to recreate the world, not some bs suzaku.
7th: CC praying??…. ummm what if the plan fail? she praying that Lelouch plan succeed so she get get some “bedroom action” from the hot Lelouch.
8th:Nunnally crying? wouldnt she know the true plan if she touch Lelouch? ummm you dont get all the memory(obvious from season 1).
9th: wouldnt the people burn Lelouch ‘s body? doesn’t matter he’s immortal. also if you kill a main character you usually reflect back(flashback) to all his accomplishment. this is so cliche… no flashback = no perma-death.
10th:Once you kill the king. Corrupt people who abuse power will only step up to fill the void…A mastermind like Lelouch would realize this. You think he’s gonna trust the world and leave it alone? Remember Lelouch wants immortality to rule forever over the world. He’s not an idiot who would have “faith” that the world would become a better place after he resign.
11th:???????? ok if you are really retarded and havent figure out i can go on and on then just stop reading. I give you 10 reason right there! That’s enough! geez i got like at least 50 reasons, but i am not wasting anymore time on retard. Go figure it out yourself
Hi CG xpert, did you read? The director himself says lelouch is dead.
The ending is an open one there are alot of scene’s that are open: C.C in the church,the crane,the cart driver and such.Oh and for that when the director sayd that he is dead….how many times have writers told that somebody is dead and after a while they pop up alive.If the world doesnt know that you exist its the same thing as being dead.He will never be able to show his face to the world and his friends.
im for 60/40 alive/dead.Why?
He conquered the world and focused the world’s hatred on him and when he “died” he made everybody’s dreams come true as he promised.The world was free and everybody could now folow theyr dream’s.The only one which was denied theyr dream was C.C.Do you think that lelouch would realy make everybody’s dreams come true and just leave C.C’s one aside?I think not.He made a promise that he will make her dream come true no matter what it is.If you watch C.C’s personality in the last 5 episode’s you could notice that she start’s to show feeling’s towards Lelouch and that she start’s acting like a human again.In episode 24 where she ask’s Lelouch does he hate her for giving him the Geass he says that he does NOT hate her and that he is greatfull for it.She then says that she never met a man like him and they each start to move closer to one another.As if they are gona kiss but Karren comes and interupts the moment.Lelouch then promise’s that he will come back to C.C and he fly’s of to Democles.In the fight between C.C and Karren,Karren ask’s C.C does she love lelouch?C.C awnser’s that she doesnt know.Which indicates that she does have feeling’s for lelouch.And in the end she cared about wining and loosing which are all part of human behavior which she didnt show in the anime until now.Why did C.C want to die?That preey much is a big clue to the ending.When she was an orphan she wanted to be loved.She gained the geass that granted her wish but after some time she could not recognize true love or false love.When she gained immortality people hated her for it thinking she is a which and immortality brought her loneliness.Lelouch gaining the code could also awnser why nunaly saw his memories.No i cant understand the telepathy nonsense(no offense).Going back to C.C,she changed her wish.Because she finaly found somebody who understand’s her and she felt being loved again which was her first wish in life.Lelouch was the one who understood her and accepted her.”The power of king’s will isolate you… i gues thats’s not quite correct….Right Lelouch?”.This suits more to be sayd to someone directly rather than talking to the dead.Lelouch being immortal now could grant her wish come true.He took away her loneliness and made her feel being loved again.
And those who say that he has to die to pay for his sins,tell me what is death?Death is an escape from life.For what lelouch has done death wouldnt bee enough of a punishment now would it?Do you feel pain when you make your mother/father/sister/brother cry because of you?Ofc you feel pain.Lelouch made his sister cry and his closest friends also cried(Karren,suzaku and probably Milly and Rivalz too).He left his family and friends and all his life behind knowing the pain that he caused them,and carrying the death of so many people on his shoulders for all eternity.I think that is a greater punishment then death.But sunrise being an excelent company left an open ending because if they wanted to make S3 they could just feel in those open scene’s and they could start from where ever they wanted.The myth busting was ok i guess but the first can not be busted and the second i agree that if orange was a true loyal servant he would have obeyed lelouch’s wish to die.But i realy think he showed a face of a man who knew more than the others.I dont think its a coincedance(spelling?) that he was in the same scenery as C.C and the cart driver(probably lelouch).And the third buster is ok it makes sense.This is my vision of the ending dont want to start a conflict i just want to share my opinion.Everybody can believe in what they want since it was an open ending.
Both sides are right……in a way. 99th Emperor of Britannia, Lelouch vi Britannia is dead, but Lelouch Lamperage is still alive. Why? Lelouch did keep his promise and completed the Zero Requiem , from a certain point of view. Zero (Lelouch version) is dead, Lelouch vi Britannia is dead, he never said he would kill Lelouch Lamperage. He never sinned through Lelouch Lamperage, so he atoned for them by killing his persona that did. I think he probably got his code through Charles di Britannia. The proof is Nullany getting his memories. There are people in THIS world that can tell the difference between a lie and the truth by observation of body language, pulse, and sweating, are they telepaths? Can lie detectors read your mind? NO!! Also, I agree with the theory that C.C. won’t be happy in the end if Lelouch died, because she will be all alone again, and the theory that C.C. won’t say Lelouch’s name to a stranger, because he was a “evil” emperor. Lelouch always have a backup plan, remember the time where he begged Suzaku to protect Nullany, then Britannian forces showed up, Lelouch hoped that Suzaku don’t betray him ( which he didn’t, but was framed ), but he took precautionary measures by putting Gillford under Geass, just incase. He thought things through, took all precautionary measures even though he admitted Suzaku was his only hope. Even when he take a gamble, he always leave a way out just incase he lost. So he took Charles’ code just incase he gets killed BEFORE he can complete the requiem. The Geass Suzaku talked about as he killed Lelouch is probably the “live on” cast on him by Lelouch, but even if Lelouch gave Suzaku a Geass, he can’t give his code to him yet, because it is not fully developed. Another possibility is that Charles gave Lelouch a code as a curse, for both Lelouch and C.C. ( so she can’t die ). For anyone that says he hates Charles so much that he won’t take his Code, that is not true, he take advantage of a lot of people, he doesn’t care if it is for what is considers “the greater good”, also Lelouch won’t make the unnecessary sacrifice and die, if it can be avoided. C.C. was praying for him, because she was probably not sure if the code transfer succeeded, or in her opinion immortality is a sin. The only way out of this is that:
Lelouch suddenly lost his edge during the Charles arc and didn’t take any precautionary measures ( highly unlikely, because the Gillford incident was afterwards ), so he does not have Charles’ code, and he is so influenced by his emotions that he wanted to seriously die, so that makes C.C. go insane, because Lelouch was the only one that cared for her, and he could of granted her her wish, therefore so far it is an insane C.C. and an insane ( and dead ) Lelouch. It just so happens to be that, she got a free ride on a wagon from a person that just happens to be overly covered ( Sunrise could of drawn any random person, usually when a character is so covered up, too covered up for comfort it is one of the main characters in disguise ), and just happens to look like Lelouch, no coincidence there ( c’mon do you really think the artists are Sunrise are that incompetent and dumb ) and have a paper crane that resembles the ones Nullany always makes above him ( don’t you think there is too much coincidences? ), and the insane part explains why she is talking to herself and saying Lelouch’s name out loud in front of a stranger and the stranger does NOTHING, because Lelouch is ONLY an AVERAGE TYRANNICAL DICTATOR that is ten times worse then Stalin so he does not hate Lelouch. If you still think Lelouch is dead, do the world a favor………………………….. NEVER BE A DETECTIVE!!!!!!!!!!.
Oh I almost forgot the Orange factor ( lol what irony, Orange picking oranges ), wait I will call him Jeremiah. Jeremiah, would have been devastated EVEN if Lelouch ordered him to do it, he will see it through, but it doesn’t been he will be happy. If you were told by your best friend to help him commit suicide, you are not going to be happy about it afterwards, even though he asked you to do it. He is more then a best friend to Jeremiah, he will happily give up his life and take others’ lives for Lelouch.
C.C. doesn’t look insane to me, compare her with the way Louise Harvey looked at season 2 of Gundam OO, or the way Lelouch looked when he was kinda insane. Lelouch doesn’t look insane to me either, seeing that his accomplishments from the last few years ( and the world ) depended on him “dying” at the right moment, he is not going to disregard even the smallest possibility that the plan will fail, and he is going to take precautionary measures, when have Lelouch NOT taken precautionary measures just incase things went out of control. It is not as if he NEVER have been defeated before. He is famous in the series for having a escape route and precautionary measures.
Also, for all those who use the director’s and the writer’s interviews as proof that Lelouch is dead……well first of all they didn’t state DIRECTLY that Lelouch is dead, He never said “Lelouch Lamperage, in all shape or form, is not immortal, is gone from the face of this Earth”, I interpret an indirect response as a hint that Code Geass will continue. Also I interpret Lelouch vi Britannia is dead, Lelouch Lamperage is still alive, I can’t stress that enough ( I got the idea from Star Wars: A New Hope where Obi-wan said Anakin Skywalker is dead, killed by Vader and in Empire Stikes Back, Obi-wan said it is true from a certain point of view, well this is pretty much the same scenario, Lelouch vi Britannia is dead, technically killed by Lelouch Lamperage, and the director and writer is doing the certain point of view thing ) do you think he would leave C.C. to suffer by herself, after all that they been through, he still haven’t fulfilled his side of the contract. If he is dead and left C.C. to suffer and/or go insane, then he is an asshole and I don’t care if he dies, but I hope that he didn’t. Also, the director and writer can have their own opinions and say what they want, but here is an underlined fact: THEY DON’T OWN CODE GEASS, SUNRISE DOES WHEN SUNRISE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY CONFIRMS HE IS DEAD, I WILL HAVE TO FACE IT . If you still don’t believe my point of view….well…….take a look at the title Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, I think that Lelouch obtained the highest level of Geass, Code Geass, having both the Code and Geass, because he obtained it from different people ( and he is the main character ), it is not like similar things haven’t happened if other Sunrise anime, the most recent example is Sestuna becoming the only true innovator. I also think that R2 = R.R. = Lelouch’s code name, it might be L.L. or it might just be R.R., who said they have to be initials of his true name, take V.V. for example, he is Charles’ other brother making his name *something* di Britannia, I I don’t see D or B in the codename, and it is not guaranteed that C.C. is her real initials, highlight this word, it is a key word, if you blind you will miss it……CODEname. As in a recent Sunrise anime, Gundam OO, Sumaragi Lee Noriega ( her real name is Kujoh ), Lockon Stratos ( Neil/Lyle Dyland ), Sestuna F. Seiei ( I forgot his real name but I am PRETTY SURE it didn’t have a F in it ). Codenames are not supposed to be real names, hence Lelouch’s codename could be R.R. or he might of decided to keep L.L. ( Lelouch Lamperage ), just like he kept his first name, but changed vi Britannia to Lamperage. I forgot what episode it is but, it was the one where C.C. said:
“Lelouch, why are you Lelouch?” and
“Why is snow white? Because it forgot what color it was”, I don’t remember the details of the conversation, but in that conversation C.C. asked Lelouch why he kept his name. If you read this far and is not convinced yet, please don’t be a detective. If you got any comments or any arguments, please feel free to e-mail me at tylergundam@hotmail.com ( I know, I know, I love Gundam )
P.S.
I don’t like Suzaku x Nullany, but I am afraid that it might happen, because besides Lelouch ( before knowing he is zero ) and Suzaku ( before knowing that Lelouch is zero and after Lelouch died ) are the only people she can trust….. I am with Lelouch x C.C., I think they make an awesome couple.
P.P.S ALL HAIL LELOUCH, ALL HAIL LELOUCH, ALL HAIL LELOUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.P.P.S Sorry if I wrote too much……
absolutely right
i sayd it and then you also sayd it…people think! Why would lelouch make a world a better place for everybody so that they can accomplish theyr dream’s except for C.C.She would be lonely either way if the world is at war or at peace.Lelouch did DIE but as a name.If the world doesnt know that you exist its the same thing as being dead.The reason why C.C wanted to die because nobody in the world cared for her and she was lonely.The only explanation for C.C being happy in the end is because Lelouch took her lonelyness away via becoming immortal like her and loving her.Thus she will NEVER be lonely again.
and about that suzaku geas thing…..suzaku sayd that geass is a curse…so when lelouch sayd you will take this geass…for the rest of your life you will be zero,the defender of justice and peace….and then suzaku sayd i accept this geass as refering i accept this curse and such.
Yeah, I didn’t think the Geass Suzaku talked about is Suzaku’s Geass power, rather the “live on”, because I didn’t see the Geass symbol activate in Suzaku’s eyes. Besides, it is not even the first time they done it in the show. Suzaku Kuurugi is dead, but Zerozaku ( thats how I will address the Suzaku version ) is alive. Hell, they even made a grave for Suzaku. They even showed Suzaku getting stabbed by Kallen’s Knightmare. If Lelouch is dead, then according to that logic, so is Suzaku, and Zerozaku is just a random person that happens to look like Suzaku right? I also thought of something else……Lelouch could never go out in public again without a mask or something to cover his identity right? That is a punishment right? So that might be the price he pay for using his Geass that C.C. meant. A food for thought: In the death list in the magazine, it showed “Lelouch vi Britannia” not “Lelouch Lamperouge”.
Sunrise did a good job with Code Geass, this is one of the few animes that I actually feel some emotion for the characters, I almost cried at Ep. 15 of R2 and the last Episode, it was so sad.
well soon we will have our question’s awsnered cuz a new code geass project is coming up in 2010 as i heard….its cover is ZERO and is signed with some bloodlike ink ZERO…maybe a S3 or an OVA…who knows..will post the link to it just to find it where i found it
ah here you go
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-12-04/new-code-geass-project-launch-revealed
Wait, doesn’t Sunrise already have Gundam SEED movie and Gundam OO movie on their hands, now they’re doing a Code Geass ova or a season 3? They must be busy. I just realized something, if they are alive, how would they make a living, neither of them can show their face in public for at least 100 years……….
I meant they as in Lelouch and C.C., sorry but I didn’t realize it was unclear until AFTER I posted the previous comment. Damn, I need to proofread my comments first. Sorry, my bad.
personally I really don’t think it matters in the slightest as long as the Makers don’t want to create more CG. If they do, THEN the heated debates can take place, assuming they don’t go right out and show lelouch up front. if they don’t then many people would have wasted there time.
Yeah, I wondered the same thing, the zero on the cover….In a worse case scenario ( for me at least ) is that it won’t be about Lelouch ( and quite possibly C.C. ) at all, it will just be about Zero ( Suzaku ) and Nullanny. The chances of it happening is quite small considering the title Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, and Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2, but they might change the title…… I agree with the fact that they want to heat up the debates, because the more heated the debates, the more people will join and more people will wait anxiously on it. : ) Sunrise are showbiz geniuses.
Lelouchianity… XD
I feel kinda pissed in all reality that the Makers would end CG with such a painful imprint.
Loving sister, turned to hate, suddenly noticing her fault at the moment of her brothers death.
It should at least end with all questions answered not leave the watchers shocked and/or angry and/or tearful.
but I guess thats what makes the show stay with you till your on your deathbed.
normally should only be used if the Makers of such a masterwork plan on adding in the future.
Hey, I presented my points logically, and I checked it for loopholes, I found none, probably because its kinda hard to look for arguments for my own points. I welcome any arguments that can prove me wrong, and I look forward to them ( as long as they are intelligent and well thought out ). I think the ending was awesome ( both for the viewers and for Sunrise ), because Sunrise can make a lot of quick money if they make an OVA or a season 3. This is one of the few animes where I actually feel some emotion for the characters ( I guess one might argue I haven’t watched a wide variety then probably, but its true, I haven’t watched a wide variety ). They did a good job with the characters, especially C.C. ( in my opinion ). Anyways, the whole point of animes/movies/TV Shows/etc. is to leave an imprint. If it left a painful imprint, one ( I ) might argue that it is the sign of good anime.
P.S. “Veni, Vidi, Vici”-Julius Ceasar, dunno why but I just felt like adding that.
its not gona be a s3 but rather an different time code geass
in edo period of tokyo.
like samurai’s and those old time gun’s and canon’s
the zero on the cover is like an announcer….you can find pics of the new lelouch,C.C and suzaku on the net…cant remember where i saw them
NO!!!!! YOU MEAN LIKE THE MANGA : (
ARE YOU SURE????
OH WELL, IT WON’T BE THAT BAD WITHOUT MECHAS RIGHT? ( I HOPE )
well…it will be in the old time’s so there wont be any mecha….im sad about that also…my favorite character is karren with her guren XD
but there will probably be some cool kick ass ninja moves…like spinzaku and such…well here are the picture’s of the only 3 confirmed characters
here is lelouch(he wont be called lelouch probably)
here is C.C i think she will be called Rufu or something like that
and ofc the all anoying suzaku
as you can see they do have some sort of armor….maybe that will replace mecha’s…but it will be a long time before the release…further information is coming in 2010 😦
C.C. will still be called C.C. probably, because she was alive for quite some time…..
My favorite character is C.C. and her Gawain. I would love to see C.C. does some ninja stuff lol. C.C. looks so ugly in that picture, the only thing the original C.C. ( in season 1 and 2 ) and that C.C. have in common is green hair! If she looks like that in the anime, it will displease A LOT of C.C. fans ( including me ). As for Suzaku and Lelouch…..hope they get a haircut and they don’t look anything like they do in Code Geass. ARE YOU SURE YOU DIDN’T MISTAKEN THEM FOR SOME OTHER CHARACTER IN SOME OTHER ANIME!! I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT THAT IS C.C.!!!!!!
Oh Lord, you shouldn’t have used quotes from Anime Otaku, I checked it out and it was so easy to prove wrong that it was almost painfull. Besides I wouldn’t see 4Chan users as the most reliable sources anyway.
We all agree on the fact that the Code replaces the Geass and that there is no such rediculous thing as Code Geass right? And that death isen’t needed for the Code to be activated.
Those are tbh the only two fact needed to prove that Lelouch is dead.
We don’t agree actually. And death IS needed , in all cases in the anime……Ahem, the title? CODE GEASS: LELOUCH of the rebellion……. Sunrise is not stupid at thinking up a title. I didn’t quote anyone, some of the points I assimilated from various people, and those points I find legitimate. If you got a problem with my points, or if you can disprove it with LOGIC, please do so. USUALLY the main character gets some special powers/ability that is “superior” to other characters, in the Gundam series for example ( another popular Sunrise anime ), Kira Yamato is the Ultimate Coordinator, Sestuna is the only true Innovator…….I use Gundam for examples that is external ( as in not in Code Geass ), because its made by Sunrise, its very popular, and Gundam OO came out around the same time as Code Geass. In other animes that is also the case, should I list all the examples I know of? Anyways, its so common that you can’t say its IMPOSSIBLE that Lelouch will have a power that exceeds all other Code and Geass users ( including C.C. ), its called Code Geass.
P.S. I hope they announce C.C.’s real name in the Code Geass coming out in 2010 🙂
You say that death is needed? I’d say no actually death isen’t needed, Charles knew right away where his Code was even though it was hidden under a glove after he supposedly “died” and there was no confirmation of C.C dying either…The only reason why people say that she died is because of all the blood on her which in all probability could have come from the nun when she (probably) comitted suecide.
You do of course also realise that Geass isen’t an original concept and is stolen right out of Irish mythology, which means that Code Geass isen’t such a simple thing as…simply Code Geass, but may be/mean something else entierly.
I even remember that CC said that the Code replaces the Geass in R2.
As far as “super abilities”…there is only one super ability in both Gundam and Code Geass, which are Innovators and Geass respectivly (I won’t say anything about Seed and Seed Destiny, because I didn’t see them and thought they were crap). Lelouch Geass was probably the most imbah ever…the only one that may contest it was C.C’s.
A common feature for people reciving super abilities among super abilities are often that they are born under some unusual circumstances or as something special. However this is not the case with Lelouch, he clawed his way up until he recived an super ability…besides there has never been mentioned anything about an super Geass.
PS: I dun want that new shit, I want an remake of whole R2 (which in my honest opinion was the definition of crap when you compare it to the first season). Too much was left unexplained…the ending was great and emotional though, just like it should be.
Charles was under Lelouch’s Geass before he died ( the Geass was to kill himself ), so the glove theory is dead. Also in C.C.’s case, the nun died automatically due to C.C. getting the code, no need for suicide, PLUS the blood from the nun was around her head on the ground, but C.C. DEFINITELY looked mortally wounded and she didn’t look very alive, also she is not stupid so she won’t sit there naked with blood on her without any movement in the least. Geass was partially borrowed, not copied, at least the name was borrowed ( the spelling is original, its just the pronunciation ), but the Geass symbol, the eye, the abilities, and Code aren’t in the myth ( I won’t remember clearly, so slight mistakes are possible ) PLUS the spelling is wrong. Anyways, Code Geass have a lot of references to the Arthurian legend, those that mean the plots are same? No! Anyways, the circumstances are different from when C.C. and Charles obtained the code to when Lelouch obtained it, Lelouch got Geass from C.C. and Code from Charles, so the Geass might not be overlapped, also if Geass activates at death, the Code Geass theory don’t have to work, but if Code Geass theory works, then activation upon death don’t have to work ( I think both combined are more likely ). C.C. only experienced Code transfer once, so her knowledge of Geass is not absolute ( hell, even Newton’s theories are slightly mistaken, and we used it for centuries, if you don’t see the connection, figure it out ). I argue that Lelouch’s Geass is not the best, because of once per person, but I agree C.C.’s is the best.
“A common feature for people reciving super abilities among super abilities are often that they are born under some unusual circumstances or as something special. However this is not the case with Lelouch, he clawed his way up until he recived an super ability…besides there has never been mentioned anything about an super Geass.” Direct quote from Kaidaten
No, no, no!!!! Its not true!!! Allelujah/Hallelujah Haptism and Soma Peries/Marie Parfacy aren’t born as Super Soldiers ( reference from Gundam OO ) and the OO Raiser gave Sestuna his power ( and revived Hallelujah ). Or in Naruto’s case, the Kyuubi was sealed into him ( I had to say it!! ). I got other examples but I don’t want to waste people’s time. (btw, Gundam SEED/Destiny was pretty good, but not great but good) I think somewhere in one of the intros in season 1 ( or is it 2 ) that it mentioned having absolute control over Geass.
I agree that R2 was not very clear, and the ending was great, but a remake will ruin it in my opinion and I can’t really explain why……Anyways, I want a season 3 not a AU ( Alternate Universe )!!!.
P.S. Read not just my posts, but other people’s as well
No, you’re wrong about Charles being uder Lelouchs Geass. If you see the scene you see that they diliberatly avoids focusing closly on Charles eyes during the entire scene until he shoots himself…We can almost safly assume that Charles is acting, besides the acting part would fit his personality.
And don’t say that the nun died hecause of the Code transfer. I you want to kill youself fast and efficiently, cut the artery in the neck for a fast and painless death (as you said pool of blood around the head). Besides, have you ever done real life first aid? I have, and its just excuse the wording fucking messy. That explains all the blood on C.C and of course she wouldn’t look lively, the person that took care of her since she was a kid just died…I’d say that its a pretty huge mental blow.
You are right about the fact that the symbol and eye (don’t remember wheather the Code was a part of this) wasen’t mentioned, but those parts are irrelevant anyway. Geis (as far as I remember) is a contract which grants you an ability for a certain price with certain weaknesess coughcopyrightcough.
C.C said as far as I remember that you only can recive the Code from the person who granted you Geass
Sure C.C dosen’t know everything, but I’d say that she knows a lot more then we do and we can take what she says as facts.
Again there is a difference, Allelujah and Soma were practically made, they didn’t recieve some super ability, they are just humans with improved genes or whatever you call it and 00 Raiser is also a product of sience.
Naruto ofc is another matter, but I still won’t call it a super ability among super abilities, because there are 8 other which are it’s equal and 1 which is it’s superior.
I guess I would be content with an AU, season 3 would in my opinion make Lelouch a coward, destroy Zero Requiem as well as his deaths purpose.
PS: I will responds to other peoples posts if they join the discussion, but I simply cba to write a comment to a person who may never respond:p
well stop this talk…convincing one another wont work….the ending was open so you choose how it ends..
and i would personaly would like an s3 or an OVA….just to explain a little more what happened after lelouch “died”.
the s2 is a little rushed in my opinion espacialy the end.
and an s3 or ova could maybe even explain more about The Geass itself…
Well they said that the ending was ambiguous, but as far as I remember, ambiguous refered to wheather the ending was a happy one or not (note to self, I can’t neither read nor speak Japanese and what I saw was an translation from an interview or sumthin’).
Fine, fine. I’ll stop here, unless someone else wants to join the fray (or Crux wanna continue):p
Im honestly not interested in a sequal, its all love and peace atm. Making more from the same storyline is an obvious attempt to make more money, since there is afterall no more enemies (besides, it is common that series quality declines with each sequal <–R2).
But something that explains the orgin of Geass could be entertaining as well as informative.
well here is the whole picture of the new character’s
you can see now clearly who is who cuz the guy on the right has the symbol of the black knights so he can only be lelouch(or what ever he will be called) and C.C has a robotic arm….at first it looks a giant arm with giant fingers but its because the hand is closer to us then her head XD
oh and here is more about the story
http://www.ggkthx.org/page/2/
oops i meant the guy on the left has the black knight symbol XD
Fine I won’t try to convince another, but these are my last points. Charles’ eyes have red rims around them, so he is under Geass. Okay, even if the nun didn’t die of code transfer then…..there are people can that kill without shedding blood, there are people that can stab someone without shedding blood, and there is a difference between fatal wounds and blood splashing, I know it gets messy, but the chances of blood only splashing on C.C. is really small ( so small that is almost impossible ), C.C. wasn’t crying and was still, dead still so it wasn’t the emotional shock ( she looked really dead to me ). Wow, I never knew about that part of Geis, and techically its not copyright because nobody copyrighted it ( even the Arthurian legend isn’t copyrighted ). C.C. never said anything about ONLY getting Code from the person you made a contract with, she said Code can only be obtained WHEN the Geass is fully developed. Anime always have something weird in it that happens to the main character that is not “normal” so its kinda not a surprise. No, no, no, Soma Peries is created I agree, because she mentioned something along the lines of that when Seregi ( I think thats how his name is spelled ) asked her why she wanted to be a supersoldier, but Allelujah wasn’t, its more like Coordinators and Enhanced Naturals, I think you got supersoldiers and Coordinators confused. OO Raiser is a product of science, but each meister is selected by Veda, so Sestuna technically did work for his ability. In Naruto, Garaa got whooped by Naruto, and apparently, he is one of the few that haven’t be captured, and there is a reason why Naruto’s monster have 9 tails, I think the more tails = more power ( I dunno, its a hypothesis ), and he is working for his power ( he is nothing if he didn’t train at all ). I don’t want THAT AU because C.C. looks so ugly in the pictures, and the characters don’t look anything like they should. He is not a coward, he probably took a hell lot of pain and according to C.C. immortality is a curse ( and not being able to show your face in public for at least a century is a curse in my opinion ), he probably is immortal for two reason 1.Just in case he gets killed before the planned assasination, 2. To keep C.C. company forever ( who wouldn’t want to lol ). The Zero Requiem is not ruined because LIKE I SAID LELOUCH VI BRITANNIA IS DEAD, LELOUCH LAMPEROUGE OR WHATEVER CODENAME HE USE NOW IS NOT. He is dead in name but not physically. I want a season 3 or OVA because R2 was unclear, and left a lot of questions. AT the end of Gundam OO Season 2 and Gundam SEED there is “no enemies” left, but in the Gundam OO movie trailer, the meisters get new Gundams and Terria appears again out of thin air ( literally, he just materialized ), so there will be new enemies. I think that there will be a coup d’eta in the Holy Britannian Empire, the abolishment of numbers and nobility displeased A LOT of people, so that will be the new enemy if there is a season 3 or OVA.
well maybe this new project can explain more of the geass itself so maybe with it we can probably explain alot of unawnsered question’s in s2
I agree, the more we know about Geass and Code itself, the “death” of Lelouch vi Britannia will be more clear.
Fine, I guess I’ll post mine lasts as well.
Charles wasen’t Geass’ed, neither red rims nor the blue animation which always comes when someone become a victim of Geass were shown…re-watch it if you don’t believe me…
Are you saying that someone killed the nun?
As you said, the Geass can only be transfered “At the end of Geass”…So why didn’t she give it to Mao? I’d say that it implies that neither Lelouch or Mao ever reached the so-called “End of Geass”.
Coughcopyrightcough was just a joke:p
I submitt in the face of your superior Gundam knowledge, I were never really into the show. I just thought that it was the best of animes which aired that season.
The reason why Naruto hasen’t been captured isen’t because he’s “Omg H4xx imbah”, but because the tailed beasts has to be sealed (or whatever) in a certain order 1 2 3…9 etc. There is actually one talied beast which is more powerfull then kyuubi if we go by the, more tails=more power theory and that is the Hachibi (10-tail or whatever it is in Japanese). Imho Narutard never worked for his current powers at all…he just suddenly became an genius and recieved a huge powerupp outa nowhere.
As you said (once again) C.C thinks the Code is a curse and considers death a better alternative. As for reason 1 – Imo that’s unlikly, I don’t think he would gamble Zero Requiem before the planed assassination. Reason 2 – Lmao, that would be quite damned egoistical (or however you spell it) because C.C’s wish is to die, not being stuck with Lelouch for enternityxD
Of course Zero requiem would be useless, I honestly don’t think the people of Code Geass future care wheather Lelouch calls himself Brittania or Lamperouge. I also seem to remember that the writer/creator/whatever said something along the lines of “Lelouch Lamperouge has perished from the face of this world”.
You forget that anime movies usually are standalones and have nothing to do with their respective storylines.
A coup d’tat would be a plot which can be recycled forever and imho only would be used to “milk Code Geass (story) dry”
They’d better give a damned good explanation of why the dude haz a metal arm in the Edo period…
Honestly, I can’t say that I’m looking forward to this, first off the mangaka who draws CG isen’t exactly that good coupled with the fact that the dude have a fucking metal arm isen’t promising.
I am going to read it though, just to get the story and hopefully have some loose ends tied up.
Yeah, we don’t have enough information to base our so called “facts”, either side can say their “facts” are 100% facts ( including me, my reasons are hypothesizes, so are yours and everyone else’ ) C.C. might not want to spend an eternity with Lelouch, but I think Lelouch won’t mind :), I would gladly trade spots with him 🙂 lol. I am a boy and I don’t know much about female psychology and how they think, so I don’t know about C.C.’s side of things. In my opinion, C.C. is beautiful, she is also smart and kind when she wants to be, she usually just play stupid, so yeah I would gladly trade spots with Lelouch!!! ( I am half-joking, half-serious ).
P.S. I agree that Naruto just suddenly became a genius, but he “worked” for it. I think Sauske is stronger, cuz he is MUCH smarter.
P.P.S. GUNDAM OO MOVIE COMING OUT IN 2010!!!!!
Well, Crux you got that right. I would personally vote for the Kallen/Lelouch pairing (since I afterall is an Kallen fanboy). I simply hate how Sunrise sold her out for fanservice in season two:( On the other hand, C.C’s cocky personality is kinda cool too and make her an attractive pairing option too.
I think Madara actually said that Naruto is stronger then Sasuke now, but I just can’t see it…Sharingan is just that much overpowered.
PS: Yeah, I saw the trailer, but it seems like they’re just putting more and more on the Gundams and that just turns me off. They almost look as overstuffed as Gundam Strike Freedom (I believe that was the name) looked in Seed Destiny. Then again, I’m probably going to see it anyways because of the awesome graphics it’ll prolly have.
I am all for C.C. x Lelouch, cuz I am a C.C. fanboy. “I simply hate how Sunrise sold her out for fanservice in season two:(” – Kaidaten, what do you mean? Its getting off topic but, I think Sasuke is stronger, because he is WAY smarter then Naruto, Naruto just have amazing chakara.
P.S.Gundam OO’s animation is awesome!!! I think its weird how Terria appears out of thin air…
I mean that Kallen became an fanservice character with close to no other purpose in season two: Don’t tell me that the bunny constume, close fitting read suit and the like 80+ ass shots (I’m bet –>insert whatever number<– that those motorbike seats was made for that purpose)was needed for plot advancement-.-
Agreed about the Sasuke is smarter part, he also has a much wider range of techniques…Only one hit from Amaterasu (black fire thing) would finish Naruto as well as anyone else. Yeah and don't forget the absolutly badass summoning thingxD
PS: I think the buttom half of Terria blurred a bit when he appeared so I suspect that he is some sort of hologram or something
Oh yeah….that…..Same thing kinda happened to C.C. too, but on a smaller scale……She barely wears ANYTHING in Zero’s room at the base…..I respect Lelouch keeping himself under control and pretend that nothing happened……I remember now that during the first episode I had to almost mute it and keep my ears pressed to the T.V. and had my thumb on the power button in case my parents see it.
P.S. I don’t think a hologram can pilot a Gundam.
HAHAHAHAHA something similar actually happened to me oncexD I was reading some manga then suddenly this extremly ecchi (I think it was Tenjo Tenge or something, so it was actually uncensored) scene pops up right when my mom walks into the room…Gawd…that was one long mom to son talk-.-”
PS: Whaaaat did ya see Terria actually piloting a Gundam? Cause I didn’t…then again he may be some sort of selfaware program or something (who knows what those guys are thinking)…
well im not a couple expert but Lelouch was more better then you guys think….he had C.C,Karen and Shirley….
but my favorite character is karen cuz i love to see guren kick ass and espacialy when she defetead suzaku
but im not much in parring up people…
He is damn lucky to get C.C. lol. I respect his dignity, pride and self-control, especially with C.C. and I respect his intellect. C.C. is my favorite character, because she is beautiful, she is smart and she is kind when she wants to be. She opts to play stupid a lot though. I want Lelouch x C.C., because they are made for each other, even their attitudes are similar, they are both arrogant and have great pride and dignity. Lelouch is a prince, while C.C. is the Queen of Geass ( kinda ). I was listening to the voice episode “Ticket of Dreams” of Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion ( It is really disturbing, but hilarious, then my mom almost came into my room, luckily I closed it fast enough, but I swear my heart skipped a beat.
P.S. Terria gets a new Gundam, that’s all I know….so I assume he is going to pilot it…..
well with the ending lelouch being immortal which i prefer he is with C.C for ever.
But still karen/guren ftw!
ok explain what happen at immortality code
I am quite surprised to see that this has this discussion has been going on for over a year. But yeah, in my opinion, I am completely with the whole Lelouch being alive theory. But a difference is here, this is a long shot, but the ending scene with the “cart driver” and C.C. could be in the Edo period mentioned for the new project. The guy in the image bought out has a great resemblance to Lelouch, so maybe the world of C reverted time somehow for C.C. and Lelouch and put them in the Edo period, look at the clothes C.C. is wearing in the cart scene, they look pretty old fashioned for the time period R2 is set in. That is just a runaway theory really, I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t true, but hey its a long shot alright.
Lelouch is dead. End of story. There is no third season, Code Geass is over, and Mario saves the Princess. Deal with it and move on.
Well I guess I’ll put the last nail in the “Lelouch is dead” coffin.
Read and cry (if you’re an fanatic fan girl)—->http://animesukiforum.tk/<—–
Just one last thing… Zero is never Lelouch nor Suzaku…. He is the one immortal… it is not right to say that Zero has different versions because he’s just a symbol…. He will continue to live on!
Zero! Zero! Zero! Zero! Zero! Zero! Zero!
‘ok your all your opinion must be right, but i will just couter your tetimonial that Cc cry for lelouch death, but we all know that for cc immortality is a curse and you wiil live in sorrow endlessly, that lead him to use lelouch for her death.so it possible that he cry that he think lelouch will suffer as she suffer for her code.
in fact Suzaku not really knew that lelouch is an immoratals,
i wiil aso give proof:
Crain symbolize granted wish,that wish symbolize lelouch the one that make Nunally’s wish granted.
take note there’s a crain beside CC in that wagon, she said:“the power of Geass brings loneliness…that’s not quite right is it, Lelouch?” her wish is to become happy w/ the man he love, and notice she smile he is happy because she will live together w/ lelouch
Firstly, I think you did a great job in writing this. You really did your research didn’t you? Also, nice job of staying with the facts.
This makes for some interesting debate. I think that both arguements could be plausable…but that that’s what the writers wanted, to leave it open for debate. That was the whole purpose of the scene with CC and the cart driver at the end.
I think, though, that if u had to choose…I’d have to disagree with you. I mean, I agree with you about what you said about Jeremiah and lelouch’s geass on schiezel, but no, I don’t think that he is dead.
First of all, they did name the whole show, “code geass.” secondly, if nunally really had such a power to predict the future, then wouldn’t she hav known that this was going to happen all along? I think that she saw the shock images because lelouch’s code was activating, after suzaku stabbed him and he was dying. Lastly and most importantly, I think that lelouch wouldn’t let him self get off the hook that easily. You said that lelouch died as punishment, to attone for his sins, but don’t you think that that’s just the easy way out? I think that he would have to pay by being immortal for eternity, because CC said several times that, basically, it sucks.
It depends on Sunrise really. If they have enough on their hands and don’t want another Code Geass, then Lelouch is dead. If they want to continue it and make $$ then he is not.
It’s not a theory he is alive. Look at the facts, when he met his father for the last time both his eyes became red, meaning he was at the final stage of the geass. We realize this because the Mao the guy who received the mind reading geass from C.C. was not killed by bullets. It’s safe to say that a sword to the stomach would not kill a fully developed geass user. So he must of survived, unless his body was cremated
Johnson, it’s not mentioned anywhere that one bird sigil in each eye is the last stage of Geass.
The reason why Mao didn’t die was because Lelouch commanded the Police to shoot him, Lelouch didn’t tell them to kill him and that’s why he survived.
no…..
lelouch is stll alive..!!!
dint u see c.c is talking to leouch.. she said
“right lelouch?”
if lelouch is dead why is cc still smiling?…
i know she cannot bare that lelouch will die…
i know all that have geass cannot die..
like c.c she’s been shot 3 times but still she is alive…
and dint ya all see?..
the one who is riding the horse is lelouch…
c.c is talking to him…
not the lelouch in heaven///
i know c.c is not insane that he will talk to lelouch that is dead..
i know lelouch is the one who is controlling the horses….
waaaa.. i know hu will read my post will understand that lelouc is not dead…..
he is alive!!!1
yeah i think so…lelouch is still alive…
I really love lelouch..I don’t believe that he will be dead after all..I think it was just a part of his plan..to make people hate him for peace..and of course make people believe that he is dead..I think C.C. and lelouch will have a peaceful life together after the end of the story..
nice story..I really adore this anime..
I hope there could be another episode..to make justice for lelouch…hehe
If Lelouch is dead, then Sunrise wouldn’t have shown the wagon with a driver that looks a lot like Lelouch. He doesn’t do anything that is not out of necessity, if he could make it look like he is dead, he wouldn’t want to me dead.
i think you made very good arguements, although i have to disagree about the myth involving jeremiah.
i think that lelouch could be alive or dead. the creators left enough details unspecified and unclear so that really, arguements for ‘he’s alive’ and for ‘he’s dead’ both make sense. so it’s up to you what you want to believe in the end. if you say he’s dead, okay, he’s dead. if not then there are still many ways he could be alive, possibly through the code transfer.
I better get off here before I just start rambling nonsense 🙂
All right, *Cracks Knuckles*, Time to counter point your counterpoints: LELOUCH IS ALIVE.
I found this very obvious to understand. C.C. is not talking to herself, never once through the series does she talk to herself. She is conversing with Marianne. (Go back and listen to all of these one-sided dialogues, it’s pretty obvious she’s speaking to Marianne). Marianne WAS alive in the world, though. While she could only take her true form in C’s world, she still existed in the real world due to her geass supplanting her consciousness in Anya Alstreim. C.C.’s comments WERE directed at Lelouch and not just as a tribute (if he died, then how would C.C. say that Geass doesn’t isolate you?) Inferance, Lelouch is alive in some form.
Lelouch possesses Charles Code. The advanced stage of Geass renders the weilder immortal. However, the immortal may be killed by someone with advanced Geass, in which place the code transfers. Charles died, meaning his code must have been transferred to his killer. His killer could only be someone with high level Geass and had to be nearby. Lelouch meets both of those requirements. He “killed” Charles by using the Collective Consciousness as a proxy weapon. The main point of this argument is the possesser of a Code is immortal except Code-theft from a Powerful Geass User. Charles died, which means his Code WAS transferred. Lelouch was the only one with Powerful enough Geass and was close in location so he MUST have obtained his father’s Code. Charles would not have died if it were not so.
Common question, if Lelouch obtained a Code, then why did he keep his Geass. There are two explainations, the second of which I find much more likely. First, Lelouch did not take C.C.’s Code (the one that granted him Geass) so he was able to retain the Geass granted by C.C. while obtaining Charlse’s Code. The Second, and much more plausible argument is this: While a Powerful Enough Geass User may obtain a Code, said Code only becomes active after the person’s first Death. Like when Lelouch ordered Charles to kill himself, Charles obeyed (I know they’re is some argument whether he may have been faking it, but if you compare the scenes to the times Lelouch attempted to use Geass on C.C. and when he tried to use his Geass again on Charles after his Code became active, the evidence is clear that Charles was NOT FAKING). Following this, Charles’s Code remained inactive until the first time he died, and then the sigil appeared on his hand (Every person with a Code has this Sigil, although we never see V.V.’s). Following, Lelouch retained his Geass, until he died, when his Code became fully active.
R.R. DOES represent engrish Lelouch (L.L). You said that we don’t know C.C. or V.V.’s true names, but we actually DO! It was released 1 year after the show in a side panel in one of the alternate universe graphic novels that C.C.’s true name is CeCilia. It was also released that V.V.’s original name was ViVianne (sp?). We can only guess what Charles’s chosen name would have been (not C.C., and not anything else in the same theme because he doesn’t have the double letter).
Sorry, good sir, but if you look at the evidence, in detail, and consider ALL of the arguments, it’s much much much more likely that Lelouch is alive. ESPECIALLY due to the validity of the How-Could-Charles-Die-Unless-His-Code-Was-Transferred-To-Lelouch (2nd and 3rd paragraphs) argument. While it’s only potential flaw lies in the fact that Charles may or may not have been faking, an in-depth examination reveals that this argument very much favors Charles NOT FAKING. Even without this point, according to the laws of Logic, my argument is completely valid (if Charles was not faking then we’ve proved the succession of Geass and Lelouch is alive and immortal) and even if this point is false (which would render my argument valid, but unsound due to an incorrect premise) it only means Lelouch is most likely alive, but not with 100% certainty. Especially combined with the C.C.-Doesn’t-Ever-Talk-To-Herself argument (1st paragraph), and the supportive Importance-Of-A-Name argument (4th paragraph) (seeing as how we never actually ever got a REAL explanation for why the second season was called R2…..), it is truth that Lelouch IS ALIVE. Even if you don’t agree with some of the points were judgement calls were made, the validity of my argument still stands and makes it much more likely than not that Lelouch IS ALIVE.
oh, and if you disagree that C.C. was talking with Marianne all those times, don’t bother trying to argue it because it has been confirmed by the series producers………
Besides, there are interviews with the producers where they talk about the finale. They respond that (Emperor) Lelouch vi Britannia is dead, but remain silent when asked if Lelouch Lamperouge is dead
PWND!
I believe Lelouch is actually dead, but remember how frequently C.C. is talking to someone who isn’t there in season one and it turns out to be Marianne? I would suspect it’s the same thing.
You may be thinking something like “C.C. could talk to Marianne because of Marianne’s geass!” but she clearly stated her mind had been transferred to Anya, and Anya was not in the series until R2. Which I think may have just countered my argument…
A third possibility is that C.C. can make a personality of somebody else from her memories to have conversations with. I know I would if I was immortal. I would be so lonely without the voices in my head. :c
To add to the Orange argument, if we suppose that he did support Lelouch’s death, I find it hard to believe that he would not continue his loyalty by serving the other child of Marianne, Nunally, and instead live a stress free life picking oranges. Maybe my analysis of his character is a bit off, but I don’t believe he could shirk his duties in such a cavalier manner unless Lelouch was still alive.
There is season 3:
Posted on 2Channel, we’ve been able to gather information a new Code Geass project known as Code Geass Gaiden: Boukoku no Akito (Akito of the Ruined Nation) is in the works. What we know is it’s set in atb 2017, seven years after the start of the original Code Geass series, likely 5-6 years after the end of Lelouch’s story, and unfortunately the world peace that was supposed to ensue didn’t. Europe is in the midst of a big war– and a small squadron of folks from Area 11 are on a mission that has only a 5% likelihood of success. Not much else is known about this new Code Geass Project the reason it is believe to be an anime is the credits from trailer lists many people who primarily only work with animes. CLAMP will be back for character designs, as will Akira Yasuda for Knightmare Frames. And Ichirou Okouchi and Gorou Taniguchi, who came up with the original Code Geass story, will be back for this new piece. There are also some newcomers to the franchise: One Shigeru Morita, who did scripts for Mobile Suit Gundam Seed and a variety of episodes of Blood+ and Toward the Terra, will be on screenplay duty for the new Geass. And Kazuki Akane, whose directed works like Vision of Escaflowne and Noein, will helm the new series.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CART DRIVER!!!!
Is there a chance that Lelouch just survied the sword wound without a Code. I mean Mao got shot I don’t know how many times at one time but he survived just fine. If medical tech can save someone after being shot like that then I am sure it can save someone from a sword wound
well, in myth #3 I think its possible because when a geass is used in you, you will forget about what happened when its used on you maybe jeremiah used it so that anya will remember everything.. but not so sure. but i like this and i really think lelouch is alive
and by the way in code geass… everything that is impossible is possible, many people survived in code geass even if its impossible to survive like mao who survived even if his fired many times, nunally who survived in the flea and guilford who survived in the flea too.
I saw on Yahoo Answers people saying the director confirmed him to be dead, but have never seen (yet) any link to an interview or anywhere where he says that. Someone else on YA said that at the end of the manga is a list of all dead characters and Lelouch is listed. I don’t have the manga to check that, but it could simply be he’s listed simply for it is presumed he is dead. To also go with that, anime and mangas don’t always match and in this case, isn’t CG anime first and not manga? If that is so, the anime is cannon and any changes/differences in the manga would not be.
Myth 1: Not gonna talk on the immortality part mainly for I’m tired and don’t feel like rewatching that scene in C to see exactly what happens/what Charles says. Think of it though, Lelouch doesn’t even need to be immortal here to have survived it. For one, Suzaku has freaking amazing skills and so could have managed to not hit any vital points. From there as long as they moved Lelouch out of there quickly enough to get help, he could manage to not bleed out. Two, to go along with that Lelouch and Suzaku both made it appear Suzaku died and that wasn’t the case so they could have set it up here too. Add to that Lelouch’s strategic ability, he could surely have created a plan that would still allow him to live even if he wasn’t immortal.
Myth 2: Orange’s loyalty? Well it’s obvious that he was in on the plan. Not for he ordered them to stop shooting but mostly for his smile and his thoughts just after “Zero” jumped off his shoulder and how easily he went down. Now I can see him going along with the plan even if Lelouch is to die for he was trying to serve both of Mariana’s kids and as the plan for Lelouch to die was for Nunnally, well I can see him going along with it for that. Even so, I don’t think he’d have been THAT content if Lelouch died even if it was Lelouch’s plan and for Nunnally. He was far too content just after the “death” and when farming oranges I think for someone that obsessed with protecting BOTH of Mariana’s kids.
Myth 3: The geass still working one. FAR too many variables to really use this one. First, we don’t know exactly how Mariana’s geass works. It may be that whenever she took control of that body Anya would have no clue at all what was going on, and thus completely blanks in her memory due to that and not Charles’ power. Also, can’t Charles only use his power once on people the same as Lelouch and didn’t Anya have blanks all the time she was growing up? So that is why I’m partly thinking whenever she was controlled, she just had no clue what was going on and got no memories herself of things Mariana did in her body. Also to toss in here, Orange DOES use his anti-geass powers on Anya in the final fight, but we see ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF THE RESULTS! What do we see of Anya after that? First passed out, second tied up and not talking, and third farming oranges and not talking. Even without that and we knew the results, well what to happen? If she got her memories back then we could say that Charles’ geass on her probably did last after his death. If she didn’t well I already gave thoughts on her not recalling anything while Mariana was in control. So your counterpoint is moot and we are left with this being plausible too. To add in, Orange is immune to geass and has geass-canceling ability but I don’t recall him having a geass detector. No, he was simply guessing her memory loss was from geass and so figured he’d give his geass-cancellation powers a try on her. So yeah, still plausible and your “proof” counterpoint still fails.
Finally: First I did not read the responses already, so sorry if I repeated things. Also, I find this “myth busting” a bit laughable as it isn’t myth busting. You need to test things, not look at at an anime that hides half the things and doesn’t explain everything in the first place. 😛 Not to mention that I don’t think any of these can be seen beyond plausible. I don’t think anything is set down in stone enough to be called busted or truth unless we did actually see that wagon driver’s face fully.
This is a tough question to answer. However, the writer said that Lelouch is dead, his story is ended (at least thats what Ive been seeing on numerous searches into Google). But is this really true? We have to remember, the writer for this story had so many twists and turns in R2, I thought my brain was going to explode. But lets examine some evidence, whether it is evidence he is alive or dead is just pure speculation at this point.
#1 – Lelouch is one of the smartest people in his time, even out-smarting his brother Schniezel. Even when it looked like he didnt have a plan and was losing his battles, he still kept to his main objective the entire time, no matter what it took to get there. We know by watching the last episode, that he clearly planned out to have Suzaku kill him, as Zero, to bring down the Tyrant of Britannia (portraying himself as his father), and ultimately bring peace to the world, fulfilling his objective for his sister as he always intended to do. So can we really say he is truly gone from the world, being as cunning and smart as he is? No, not really.
#2 – Lelouch gained the full power of his Geass as his father was holding him by the neck, as the “Gods” obliterated his parents from the world of c, and subsequently from reality. It is very possible Lelouch figured out how to obtain his fathers code and did so at that very moment. That may be something we will never know. But we do know it was at that very moment he unlocked his full geass. That has to say at least something. Also, Marianna had transferred her soul/mind to Anya, but all the meanwhile, was speaking to C.C. somehow, even though she wasnt in the same room as her. The world of c. Perhaps it is not just another realm, but a connection for geass users to be able to communicate with one another as well? That seems very plausible. So with that in mind, it is conceivable that Lelouch could be in the world of c.
#3 – Lelouch did infact gain immortality somehow by obtaining his fathers code. Knowing this, he came up with the idea to become the very tyrant his father was and then have Suzaku kill him for all the world to see. It would be his final stage-act as he kept saying throughout the series. Remember, Zero and his antics were nothing but a stage performance to the get the world moving in a new direction for the future. However, I do not believe that anyone else knew but C.C that Lelouch did indeed gain immortality. That way, the world could still blame him for all the wrong, and he could live peacefully in a new life, knowing the world would be in good hands. I dont know if Orange-boy was in on the plan or not. I dont think he was, but again, it could all be just another stage performance as we have seen throughout the series.
I haven’t finished reading all these comments yet, it’s quite lengthy at this point, so I apologize if these points have already been made. I would like to comment on the theory that Lelouch absorbed Charles’ code.
– I’d like to start by pointing out that when the code is absorbed the previous owner does not die. V2 was alive after Charles took his code. Based on this all the comments that claim that Lelouch couldn’t have absorbed Charles’ code because Charles and Marianne died the same way are invalid. We don’t know exactly how the code transfer occurs, but all the known requirements were fulfilled for Lelouch to now have a code.
– Next, is the comments that claim Lelouch doesn’t have a code because he used geass after this event occurred. My theory, and I’ll back this up, is that the code has absolutely no affect until after the owner dies for the first time. My reasoning is that after Charles stole V2’s code, Lelouch used his geass on Charles. Charles didn’t simply shoot himself to prove he was immortal, Lelouch’s geass forced him to. Charles was then saved by being immortal. But wait, if he was immortal and possessed a code, why did he succumb to Lelouch’s geass? Based on this, it wouldn’t be unreasonable that because Lelouch hadn’t died yet, he still had his geass, but now that he has died, he no longer can use his geass and is instead immortal himself.
Just a side note, this doesn’t have to do with the code theory at all, but if Mao was as shot up as he was and he lived, couldn’t we just say that Lelouch was revived after Nunnally explained what had happened to a close circle of people that didn’t hate Lelouch?
After reading everything and reviewing some points I have more to post.
– In my second point I claimed that Charles is under Lelouch’s geass, although this may not have been true, it’s actually been cut off. Lelouch’s geass enters Charles’ eye, but it doesn’t show it altering his thoughts. That’s not to say that it doesn’t, just that it is yet another point to debate.
And to clarify with the new season of Code Geass Gaiden, it is set in 2017 a.t.b. which is the same time frame as the first season, it does not take place after the second season (2018 a.t.b.) Japan was taken over in 2010 a.t.b.
I have a friend who’s been following info on the new CG season. She told me it’s a side story about a group of 11s who go out basically on a suicide mission somewhere in Europe during season 1 of the original series. As such we might see cameos of the original cast or some of the season 2 cast show up but mostly should be new characters.
I didnt bother to read all of the comments so what im saying may have already been said.
My theory is Lelouch did not die and for a couple of reasons that everyone knows but may have overlooked or maybe I’m over speculating.
Both my theroies tie into C.C
First C.C. power of course was the power to make anyone love her(before she became immortal). Now Lelouch knows her name and he told C.C. when he was in C’s world with Charles that he knew what her real wish was… and my guess (educated guess) is that she wants to be loved by someone without being under the power of geass. Theres also leading up to Season 2 episode 25 several times were Lelouches mother Mariana talks with C.C. probaly teasing her about Lelouch. Eventually C.C. reliezes she has feelings for Lelouch and wants to spend the rest of her immortal life with Lelouch. After all C.C maybe an immortal whitch, but she is still human and has female traits and every women wants to be loved by someone of their own free will.
Second, She (C.C) says in episode 25, “Lelouch the price for using your geass on them is a dear one,” when she was in the church. Now dying is the easy way out, how is that a heavy price compared to being Immortal (and living forever) like C.C.? Dying doesn’t explain how it’s a heavy price, because eventually everyone dies, except those who are Immortal. Which implies that when Suzaku killed Lelouch, that it would activate his code and also tie in the fact that the emperor of the world would be dead and the world would move on blaming someone (Lelouch) and not something(democleas).
It’s also painfully obvious that with the crane in the cart, and C.C. noding towards the front and saying “I said that geass was the power of the king that would condem you too a life of solitude. hmphh, I dont think that is quit correct, right Lelouch” She is not talking to herself and she doesn’t mean that Lelouch met up with all his dead friends or lovers and family in the afterlife like Shirley and Euphy ( theres more characters as well)and there having a ball. No, with all that has been presented in the anime series I cannot believe she means it in that sense. C.C. means it from the point that she will be spending the rest of her immortal life with Lelouch and that he is driving the cart.
Although what I said is mainly implied and not physically shown, my arguements still hold strong. If someone has a different theory on the same topic as mine I would find it amussing for some critisim.
http://vodpod.com/watch/2160302-code-geass-r2-special-episode-26 Here is the proof that he is not dead!
I’ve seen two different versions of that. The one that you showed, and a second that when it scans along the driver it actually shows his face being Lelouch (unmasked in that version) before it goes to CC in the back of the cart. People just claim at least those are very good edits. 😦
Myth #3 is plausible considering the fact that when Lelouch had his Geass sealed in Season One the girl who he had commanded to carve marks into the wall everyday stopped, every mark that was carved into the wall up until Lelouch had his Geass sealed was a cross yet once his Geass is sealed the wall is shown with one final mark on it and its nothing more than a horizontal line, an incomplete cross. Also every Geass is different so it would make sense that Anya remained under the effects of Geass even though the user was dead. You could argue that its strange for Shirley to still be under the effects of Geass even when Lelouch’s Geass was sealed but remember Charles altered the memories of everyone and because he wanted to protect Lelouch (apparently as learned when they were in the World Of C) he would’ve kept those memories removed so as to keep her from remembering that Lelouch was Zero and possibly ruining things because of it. These facts make it quite clear that Lelouch’s Geass is cancelled out upon his death, which is the same as having it sealed, so the simple fact that Schneizel is still under the effects of Lelouch’s Geass provides clear evidence toward him being alive otherwise it would make no sense as to why they show that the girl who was carving the marks into the wall suddenly stopping at the same time that Lelouch’s Geass was sealed.
It’s been a few months since I’ve watched Code Geass and I’m too lazy to look this up myself. Is there a time in the second season where Lelouch tries to use his geass on anyone else and can’t change their thoughts? I seem to recall him trying it again on Kallen, but I’m not sure. I know he did on Shirley but we don’t know if it failed because geass can’t do the impossible, or because he had already used it on Shirley. If after he regains his geass it can be recast on someone. However I would have to say the biggest hole in your logic, sorry but I have to play the devil’s advocate, is that shouldn’t his geass be sealed when his code is activated? If he cannot use his geass anymore, and by your own statement when that happens it is removed from those affected, then it should be cancelled out.
Although thinking about this, one could argue that this would be evidence that Lelouch now has command of both code and geass.
As a reply to the above:
Though I quote this from TV-Tropes, apparently (according to the creators) the girl Lelouch had ordered to carve crosses in the wall, continued faithfully to do so, even after the Tokyo Settlement was vacated: “Since she was evacuated from Area 11, she was taken away from Ashford Academy and that wall she must carve. After that, every night she would escape from her home to head to Ashford, which resulted in a nervous breakdown. She had to be confined so she wouldn’t escape again, but they say she’s doing better.” ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TearJerker/CodeGeass )
As a general reply:
Since most of the primary points (erroneous or otherwise) in favour of his being alive, have been stated already, I think I shall mention some less prominent, and more debatable, arguments.
– Our 99th Emperor Lelouch’s flash-back to his conversation with Suzaku. The Knight of Zero said, “People desire the future.” Surely this applied to Lelouch as well? Death would be a pretty unsatisfactory end, when – in truth – he could not be sure he had changed the world yet; and he said, “I will gamble on the Geass of people’s wishes [sic],” which rather suggests he would wait on the outcome.
– Due to the uncertainty of translations, I have seen his creed rendered not only as ‘Only those willing to be killed, ought to kill’ but as ‘Only those willing to be shot, ought to shoot’. Though I’m sure this is hardly a valid point, perhaps some similar shade of meaning exists in Japanese?
– Nunnally is not a psychic. She was able, to a limited degree, to tell whether a person was lying by touching their hand (and wrist, perhaps), and asking an appropriate question; that was all that was demonstrated. The flashes of memory she received when she touched Lelouch were delivered in a format pretty much identical to the memory transfer that is unique to the Code; they are the same, unless the creators are attempting to mislead us.
– Though, on that subject, the creators [I mean, whoever might have a hand in the production] are perfectly willing to lie. Nunnally was pronounced dead for quite a few episodes. Their word is to be respected and given weight, but they are, at the very least, not afraid to contradict themselves.
– Some have said that C.C. wept for Lelouch’s death; others, for his immortality and permanent isolation. I think it is more important that she was in the church at all – the only such establishment we see elsewhere in the series, is the place where she gained her Geass, and later – her Code.
– As for C.C.’s last words, I think that their content is as important as their recipient. To paraphrase, she said that the power of kings (Geass) isolates the one who bears it. Let us reflect on the fates of all those afflicted with the Geass: her Highness Marianne vi Britannia, née Lamperouge; his Majesty Charles di Britannia; V.V.; Mao; Lord Bismarck, Knight of One; Rolo Lamperouge; and those poor unnamed children in the Geass Order.
Apart from a few subjects at which we can only guess, none of these had any real companions – only subjects, peers, and allies, and most of all, enemies. If they had friends, they were betrayed (V.V. and Charles, mutually) or separated (Marianne from her children). This seems to only prove C.C.’s point. If she herself admits the assertion to be “not quite correct”, then there must be an exception. The only known exceptions would be Lelouch, and C.C.
If Lelouch died, then he died alone, not surviving to hear Nunnally’s tearful outpouring. C.C., too, will exist forever alone, her wish unrequited (and she said herself that her wish was ‘to be loved’; wherefore her Geass was, ‘to be loved’). This would hardly disprove the assertion that the Geass and the Code bring solitude; especially since, when deciding that they were ‘not quite correct’, she appealed especially to Lelouch (alive or dead) as an authority and witness.
I HAVE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS REGARDING “GOD”
AND LELOUCH IS DEAD ONLY IN OUR REALITY, OR TRANSFORMED INTO…
Did anyone understand what exactly happened in the “World of C” when Lelouch and his family were united?
What have had to happen for Lelouch to defeat his father (the invulnerable one)?
It seems like Lelouch merely made a “wish” to god? OR was he COMMANDING god to overwrite his father’s future (Of becoming One)?
I am just saying that when Lelouch asked his father “have you forgotten there’s someone else?”–was that god or human? Who ever he or it was, Lelouch seemed to be able to connect with it (as the big sign of Code Geass showed up in the sky granting Lelouch’s wish for a tomorrow. OH! that’s right, “God” in Code Geass was merely the “collective conscious of the people!” Lelouch technically did not have to command for a “tomorrow,” but remind us (the people, collective conscious)why there had to be a tomorrow…
The weapon to destroy God was not anything mechanical (perhaps with the exception of opening of the gate), but was a way to communicate with ONE (or all consciousness), and we got to see “how” Charles zi Britannia (the emperor)was using this “weapon” in an attempt to change the future; by convincing the ONE (with Reasoning/Philosophy).
So anyway why do I think Lelouch really died (bodily)?
Remember when Lelouch said some sort of:
“…Only one who is willing to sacrifice himself is worthy to be a King.”
Maybe he became GOD? –the collective consciousness of all.
–just some curious thoughts =D
Favorite Anime of all time of course.
Only one who is willing to sacrifice himself is worthy to be a King.”
– I don’t think it’s meant to be taken literally but rather, he’s emphasizing on the quality of the leadership of a king, which is to serve the people, with the ultimate service being of sacrificial death.
a simpler way to discredit #2 is that orange was loyal to marianne which was the reason he followed lelouche as he was her progeny. however so was nunnally, and since lelouche was sacrificing himself both to make a better world and to make his sister empress orange would have still been very loyal to mariannes children. he just would have been transferring his fealty from one child to the other.
I beleive Lelouch is alive.
In both manga and anime version the wagon guy was shown…
Now tell me, why would the producers show that random guy if he’s not important, they should have skipped to taling CC right?
I’ve just re-watched this entire series, all 50 episodes of it and am convinced that he is dead. Didn’t change my opinion at all…. Ruru is dead to me 3 years ago, still dead 3 years now.
First of all, the new CG anime sequel is going to be a side story( it happens between CG and CG: R2)
Although i truly believe Lelouch is alive, It depends on ppl own interpretation, as they are plenty of proofs which prove both statements. For the ones who belive he´s alive: they are two theories to support it that which can be deducted if you watch carefully both seasons.
To beguin with, let´s take out the one which stands on the sacrifice of a person which is disguised as Lelouch ( stop thinking about Sayoko, she is imprisoned). This theory isn´t likely to be because it don´t fit with Lelouch´s character ( he´s a proud and arrogant person he won´t let anyone die for his own crimes, he is the kind of person who accepts the consequences of his actions). Hum, forget about arguments like ” CG second season is r2 and it stands for R.R (Rurushu Ramperuge his japanese name) so he is alive and he is inmortal” or stuff like that, i will use only arguments and suggestions about what we watched in the anime.
Let´s beguin with a few hints that can be infered through the series:
First of all, Code trasfering doesn´t imply death itself as it´s shown in Turn 15 R2 with V.V example, who died due to his wounds, he didn´t die immediately after his Code was stolen by Charles. The Nun example in that chapter fits to as it was shown blood around Nun´s corpose so we can infere she committed suicide.
2º: C.C hadn´t given her Code to Lelouch as at the end she conserved her memories of being a witch ( could she talk about the geass if she turned the slave girl? not at all ). If you watch turn 14- 15 of R2 again you´ll notice that V2 lost his memories when the code was removed ( that´s why he spoke about taking the burden of being inmortal because he was Charle´s old brother )
3º For the Code to activate it was necesary the death of the Code bearer ( as it was proven with C.C who was killed by the nun and with Charles who killed himself because of Lelouch geass order in turn 15 R2). They are evidences in the season one to prove this. During the turn 25 of S1, while Lelouch and C.C where in the Kanejima island and suddenly were drag into C.C´s memories again, Lelouch watch all of C.C´s deaths through her lifetime ( during WWI, due to the inquisition…. and IT APPEARS THE IMAGE OF C.C WHEN SHE WAS KILLED BY THE NUN) so that´s the definitive proof.
The theory i would consider for assuming he´s alive:
– He recibes the Code from Charles: all of this stuff is mere supposition and it can be easily discarded but it sounds the most logical one for me and for most of the fans who want him alive. First, let´s talk about the few things we know about the Code and the Geass. It has been told that you need a full mature Geass UNDER CONTROL ( which in most of the cases implies having a Geass in both eyes to adquire any Code ( CC says in Turn 15 R2 that when Geass reaches a certain level, it allows to kill inmortal so we can asume that he technically killed Charles with the order he gave to “God” in C´s realm. The scene in which Charles attempts to strangle him is quite suspicious ( he strangles Lelouch with the hand that has the symbol of the Code). I´m almost sure that direct contact is implied for Code Trasfering (let´s watch again Turn 15 R2, when Charles was about taking CC Code and CC touches his chest he seems pleased). have you noticed when Lelouch yells to Charles. “Begone!” the Geass activation sound appears and after an istant Charles disappears? Suspicious too.
– the major problem we have to guess out if Lelouch is alive is te lack of information we have about Code and Geass. Assuming he recived the Code from Charles i will point out some things which may explain why Lelouch still have his Geass.
To beguin with, we don´t know if the reciever of the code losses his geass because of this, or he losses it when it is activated ( which is likely to be when the reciever dies as it´s shown through the serie with the examples of C.C which was killed by the nun or the example of Charles which shot himself) or he losses it if he recived the Code from the person who gave him the Geass. If the Geass is lost when its recived, this will stand by the theory which mantains he´s dead. if it´s not, who knows
I´m going to point out some weird things which may help to mantain this theories: the most essential one, why did Nunally have a vision or fashback about her brother´s memories when he touched him. i mean that F***ing stuff of “reading people heart when she touched them” is BS ( it´s more likely to know when they lie because their heart ryhtm and that stuff which is supposed to work with a polygraph) and it isn´t explained. It´s indeed a plotsource but it hasn´t got any logical explanation.
another weird scene to remark is the one in which Jeremiah( orange-kun) allows Suzaku-zero to advance and kill Lelouch. Orange-kun is the most loyal guard who will defend his master no matter what ( although Lelouch´s whish is to die), he wouldn´t let anyone pass through to assasinate his master. Suspicious isn´t it?
– He actually nows about Lelouch´s plan but Jeremiah hasn´t shown an emotion to prove that certainly Lelouch did die, Au contraire mon ami, He has given us a powerful argument to stand on the position lelouch became immortal. What about abandoning Lelouch´s corpose and smiling while he was ordering retreat?And the scene in which with Anya in an orange trees crop. he appears smiling which i wouldn´t do if a few months ago i´d failed in my mission of protecting Lelouch ( orange-kun´s honor and pride won´t recover so easily after that ;P ).
Another interesting scene is the one in which C.C appears praying in the church. I don´t remember the phrase she said but it meant more or less ” Lelouch , the price of casting the geass on the people..” and then she cryies. .. Why is she crying: two options; in one hand we have the real death of Lelouch, which is a possibility; in the other hand we have the death and then “rebirth” due to the power of a Code as CC´s PoV of immortality is like a curse. Both possibilities may support why does she cry. if you watch CG first season turn 25 carefully, the last two minutes after the credits C.C appears sinking with the Gawain and she is crying more deeply than this tieme By the way for ones who support that Lelouch´s dead was magnificent ( which it was) and he should be dead because it´s the price of his crimes i ´m saying this: in my opinion inmortality is the harsh punishment he would have as he had lost his complete identity ( he isnt Lelouch Lamperogue or Lelouch vi Britannia no longer) his image will be recorded as a slaughter-dictator ( more or less as Hitler was) he won´t be able to contact with his friends nor his dear sister and he must protect his identity at all costs. Dying was the easy way or the lightest punishment. Furthermore, Lelouch is the kind of person which will select the harsh punishment for his crime which is being inmortal.
What about that weird conversation with Suzaku before the Zero´s requiem? The one about Wishes that is. Lelouch compares Whises with the Geass ( wich is the truth Geass=Wish, Geass represents ppl most powerfull wish), and i quote part of the dialogue:””Suzaku would you say Geass are like wishes….. I´m under a Geass ( let´s change the word Geass for Wish, remember Geass= wish) wich makes ppl´s wishes( let´s change wish for Geass) true”. In my opinion it´s a word game. Maybe the “wish” is the one to survive or the one of C.C to keep him alife as she loves him and the obvious interpretation for “Geass” is granting them to ppl. These is a possible argument although its true it can be easily discarded.
Besides C.C true whish wasn´t the death it was being loved( her Geass=Wish was being loverd ), which couldn´t be accomplished if Lelouch isn´t with her ( although they are quite evidences about their reciprocal feelings they hadn´t say a word about it to the other. I´m almost sure ( i´m a CCxLulufag too) that CC´s and Lelouch´s destiny is linked by a bound, there is no point for CC of being alive if Lelouch is certainly dead. What about Lelouch´s promise in Turn 24R2? Yeah the one about making CC smile after all was finally over. What´s the point of promising that if he was really going to die?
– Forget about that crazy staff of C.C ability to talk to death people , she could only talk to Marianne because her unique Geass ability and to V.V because they were ALIVE ( did C.C talked with Mao after he died or something? That´s what I thought…) although its true that they can talk to death ppl in the world of C.
About the paper crane: it only appears in the anime ( i´ve read the manga and i haven´t found it in this scene; by the way , if the author wanted Lelouch to be dead without doubts why should he draw the same scene of C.C on a hence cab and with a masked driver which appears in one big comic cell without showing his face… suspicious ) C.C learnt to do paper cranes in the turn 5 of the first season. the paper crane obviously isn´t a property of C.C as it far away from her possesions and if you look carefully you will point out that it is near the drivers head, on the edge of the cab. You could argument that the paper crane simbolices Lelouch for CC, but it´s clearly far away from her so it doesn´t fit it belongs to her. if it doesnt´t belong to C.C whom it belongs to?Guess it…
About C.C monologue on the hence cab, i would consider two options:1º She is thinking about Lelouch or talking to him who might be a ghost-spirit, that kind of manga staff or he´s in C´s realm, which it´s almost being death as he would become an unconscious “soul”, part of the unconscious colective( which i reject as you could only talk to dead people if you are in C´s world). 2º She is talking to him loudly so we should supose he´s the cab driver . The voice tone, the slight inflexion while saying Lelouch´s name and the point that that´s definitely not a reciprocal question .3º If we admit that she can talk by thelepathy with some ppl as long as they are alive( V.V and Marianne) , it could be that Lelouch is hidden alone somewhere and she is talking thelepathically to him.
Now it´s the turn to talk about the theory which support that he´s dead. I will ignore that kind arguments like ” Ichirō Ōkouchi told Lelouch was dead” which i will specifically quote ” we could say that Lelouch´s story has full stoped” ” death was the price he had to pay”( which is true even if we consider that his both identities Lelouch Lamperouge-Lelouch vi Britannia have been destroyed and if we consider that he is alive his story is ended, he has to hid somewhere) and Goro Taniguchi words ” the end of CG is an open ending, fans must interpretate and belive what they want the most”. Quite smart they are, money moves mountains… I won´t comment about their declarations as there is no point for doing this.
Because of that i´ll give diferent arguments wich supports the theroy he´s dead:
It isn´t a fact that he recived any Code as we don´t know very much how does code and geass work. if he didn´t recived the code( wich was likely what happened as C.C´s regeneration lasts few minutes and Lelouch in the same time doesn´t appear to regenerate) they are few ways to survive that wound.
It is imposible the theory of a person disguised of Lelouch ( why should suzaku cry because he was killing his best friend if he knew almost every detail of the plan Zero´s requiem and how the hell will Nunally discover that this was a plan of his beloved brother by touching the hand of a impostor)
It´s true that he could survive if it was taken to an hospital or something like that but that wasn´t the plan and orange-kun and Lelouch´s soldiers abandoned him when he was seriously injured ( and if the sword stab reached some of the vital organs as we supose it did it´s almost imposible to heal or to help someone with that kind of injures if it isn´t trated quickly and he wasn´t )
Some ppl belive he´s alive others that he´s dead. Belive what you want. I belive he´s alive although is quite dificcult he will apear in the next seasons. that´s what Okouchi meant, it´s a longgg full stop in Lelouche´s story ( which i supose he will stand with C.C as a couple of inmortals, hidding their true identity or at least Lelouch one, having all the eternity to pay for his crime and to watch how the world is maintained in peace ; wich i truly believe it´s imposible btw)
Conclussion: Sunrise won´t include Lelouch character in the near future CG anime and that´s why they chose to “expand” CG universe instead of “continue” it ( a sequel) and that´s from quoted comment of Tanniguchi and Okuochi.
And parallelism can be infered throughout the series too.
I will remark one:
VV and Charles. VV, the oldest brother, takes the burden of inmortality(and hids-disapear from the “world”) and Charles takes the role of being the emperor.
Lelouch and Nunally. Lelouch, the oldest brother, takes the burden of inmortality as an atoment of his sins( and hids-DISAPEARS, as he told to Suzaku in turn 25 R2; from the “world”) and Nunally takes the role of being the emperess.
If you want more of them visit http://omaemo.dasaku.net/2008/09/30/code-geass-r2-25-for-dummies-or-its-not-the-horse-cart-stupid-the-ending-explained/
This article is made by an Lelouch´s death believer but he finally afirms that they are more hints of Lelouch being inmortal than dead.
It´s true the myth of the cut end scene original y the Japanese 1st edition CG DVD??? Let´s watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo
It seems pretty clear it was the original end ( the detail of the image is almost as the original, even the movement of the mouth and the voice of Lelouch´s seiyu). It doesn´t seem to be edited.
Notice that the TokyoTV simbol in the right corner of the screen dissapears or at least it´s camouflaged by the hence of the hat. If you put the computer´s mouse cross in the exact place of the TokyoTV simbol you will notice it´s position varies from the scene of the last word that CC says and the scene in wich the paper crane it´s focused. What could it mean?? Guess it genius….
i do believe he is dead ,c2 talks to past users who have died all the time when u see her talking to her self so i believe in the ending scene that she is merely talking to him and not that other person she all ways talkes too
Actually it’s the exact opposite. C.C. never once talks to someone who is dead. When you see her talking to “herself” she is talking to Marianne due to her unique situation, who is not dead (at the time). Also I think she talks to V.V. at one point, also not dead. I did re-watch it recently but I don’t remember for sure, I’ve seen it claimed that she talks to Mao after he died while she is in C’s World. If she does, then it is only because she is in C’s world since that is where you go when you die and does not require anything special, because Charles was talking to Clovis near the beginning of the first season.
@Jaxx0174
CC never talked to Mao after he died, She just pulled the trigger of the gun and shot Mao while she was saying: “Mao wait for me in C´s realm”.
She never talked to Mao thelepatically, she talked to Marianne(after fighting with Anya, turn 11 R2) and to VV( Turn 19 s1 ) because they were alive. The only way she could talk to Mao is if she would go to C´s realm and talk to him ( Charles talked with Clovis in C´s realm after Clovis´death).
That is basically what I said. The only thing that I wasn’t sure of was the talking to Mao part after he died, and I said I only wasn’t sure about that because I have seen other comments on this forum claiming she had, but couldn’t remember for sure myself.
And while I’m on it, C.C. also talked to Marianne several times in season 1. Again I’m too lazy to give specific episodes and times.
But something is bothering me. CC talked to Marianne several times in S1. But when CC fought with Anya in turn 11 R2, CC was shoked of finding Marianne was inside Anya, and then She started to talk more often to her.
The point is: How could She have been talking to Marianne in S1 if She just guessed in R2 Marianne was inside Anya?
I supose She knew Marianne was still alive ( that´s why she talked to her) but She didn´t know in which body did Marianne hide. That´s my opinion although i wannted to know what you guys think.
Possibly, but I don’t think that she wouldn’t know who Marianne was inside. That seems to me one of the first things you would ask. If anything I think it was she was surprised to find that Anya was piloting the Mordred. Or even if she knew that maybe it was just a name to C.C. and she didn’t know which Nightmare the Mordred was.
There is just one reason WHY Lelouch can’t be dead, and that is in my opinion not counterble in R2 Episode 15 we see the history of CC, as when she was used as tool to kill the priestress… (remember: only a fully developed geass can kill CC or the priestress), now CC wants Lelouch to kill her. That concludes that Lelouch already possesses this fully developed geass and we also know that he fulfils his contract.
So Lelouch can’t be dead.
No Myth nothing just facts.
Except that C.C. doesn’t want Lelouch to kill her. Her true wish isn’t to die, it’s to be loved. Granted for this reason your conclusion is still accurate. To sum it up though, they may say they want to die, but their true wish is whatever they’re geass granted them. So C.C. is to be loved, Lelouch is for people to obey him, Charles is to alter memories (or possibly change the past), Mao is to know what someone is thinking, and so on.
I have, since the very moment Zerozaku ganked Lelouch, believed him to be dead, at least in the physical sense. But, in this world, the concept of life is flexible in the nature of it’s laws. It’s not cut-and-dry. As shown with Marianne, who was quite graphically and undeniably killed, was still ‘alive’, which was hinted at long before being proven through instances where it appeared C.C. was having a conversation with herself, when in actuality, it was with her. That’s one of the few nails in the proverbial coffin I actually put any stock in. C.C., through the code I assume, had the ability to converse with Marianne, who was physically dead, and I believe that is what we see at the end of the series, C.C. either directly conversing with his ‘spirit’ if you will, or merely speaking to his memory, as many do with lost loved ones. The point of C.C. being shocked that she was in Anya is probably just general surprise she was somehow inside a living person instead of in the World of C, or floating like a ghost. If in fact Lelouch did have the code from his father, I imagine C.C. would somehow know that, and Lelouch would not cheapen the final act of his facade by faking his death; he had too much honor and too many sins on his conscience for him to do something like that knowingly. And seeing as he was royalty, I’m entirely certain, even though he was hated for being an admittedly massive prick by the people he was oppressing, they would have gone through the proper procedures after his death for either burial or cremation. I don’t see him being able to sneak away without someone noticing a missing dead body, and at that point in his life, he would not have gotten someone else to stand in for him in the assassination, and even if he had, as I mentioned, the procedures following the death would reveal if it had been an impostor or not.
And for arguments’ sake, if Lelouch HAD somehow survived, either through having the code and not knowing, or using a stand-in, there’s no way someone as intelligent as him wouldn’t change his appearance afterward, being the most recognizable face on the planet, even if he was just riding a hay cart out in the boonies of the countryland. People say that the shape of the face and the hairstyle of the driver match Lelouch’s, but it isn’t conceivable that someone who planned out two worldwide revolutions and became the most known face on the planet wouldn’t CUT HIS HAIR AFTER FAKING HIS DEATH. Or at least dying it. Don’t get me wrong, I wanted him to live, but halfway through the first season it was pretty clear he wouldn’t, to me at least. And if people haven’t realized that facial features in Code Geass are similar to those in, say, Gundam 00. I’m sure there are many other characters in the CG series that have similar faces to Lelouch, it is an anime after all, and art style can only create so many facial patterns. EVEN THEN, you have to remember, it’s an ANIME. It’s not like you can use facial recognition software to scientifically prove that it was Lelouch. It could just be a coincidence. I do wonder who the driver is, it might just be some guy that decided to be charitable and give C.C. a lift in the hay cart. A big problem with people is reading too far into something that might only be superficial. You can see a dozen series with open endings, because the creators want you to draw your own conclusions. They might not even know themselves whether or not one ending is the right one. It depends on the individual in that situation. In this case, I choose to believe he is dead physically, but probably alive spiritually, like his mother had been. I’m sure if the creator wants to, he’ll find a way to bring Lelouch back from the quasi-dead.
Sorry for spitting out what a dozen others said before me.
You do bring up many good points with this, and much better written that most of the posts on this thread, so don’t fret about re-stating certain things. I’ll start by saying there is no ghosts in this world. I’m certain that C.C., knowing Marianne’s geass, knew that she wasn’t a “spirit.” You have to remember who gave her this power. Speaking of which, this was also the reason C.C. could speak with Marianne the way she did. C.C. never spoke “in memory” of someone, at least out loud. Now that i think about it, can someone post the time that C.C. spoke to V.V. using the code or whatever? If she can do this, Lelouch wouldn’t even necessarily need to be anywhere near the cart.
Yes removing the body is a hole in the living theory. I do believe, now that Nunnally is the Empress, they would have done a proper burial. However we know next to nothing about how the resurrecting works. The only time it was shown where we knew how much time had passed was with Charles. It could have been hours when C.C. revived her first time. It is completely possible he could choose when to resurrect.
As for changing his appearance, yes it seems foolish not to. I think he is the driver however. There is no reason not to show a nobody’s face, if he were in fact just a random cart driver. For this same reason I think he was purposely drawn to resemble Lelouch. Do you really think the creators just happened to leave just enough holes in the anime to spawn this years old debate? Yes it is an anime, and as such, I think it was VERY carefully planned out exactly what was shown for this very purpose. They didn’t want to leave any one detail that could irrefutably point to either alive or dead.
Those are some excellent reasons, and I agree with you. But there is one more crucial thing you forgot. It isn’t said in the anime, nor is it shown in the anime, and not in any of the mangas or “Lelouch’s Birthday Special’ DVDs.
The main story and script writer, Ichiro Okouchi, released a statement in the Japanese magazine Continue, Vol. 42 to quell rumors that Lelouch was alive. LELOUCH IS DEAD!!!!!!!
And to all those people refusing to believe it, you can call Ichiro Okouchi and ask him whether Lelouch is alive or not. He’ll say no. Sorry. I was devastated, but if he didn’t die, then Zero Requiem would be pointless AND it would be less powerful to watch.
Here is the interview:
“Ichiro Okouchi, ‘Continue’ vol 42, (October 2008). “Lelouch dead!? Was it a good one or a bad one!?”
” —–Still, isn’t it possible that defeating the wise ruler Schneizel, the person who was supposed to have brought order to the world, might lead to some [viewers] interpreting it as a Bad End?
Okouchi: That’s true. There are probably a lot of people who think of it as a Bad End, a tragedy, considering the protagonist’s, Lelouch’s end as well. However, Lelouch says in the first episode: “Only those prepared to be shot are allowed to pull the trigger themselves.” If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end. Of course, I understand that not all of the viewers will accept this ending. There were people who wanted a happier ending, after all.
—–Was there a dispute among the staff members regarding the ending?
Okouchi: No. It was decided fairly naturally. During the “Code Geass” script meetings, there are many cases in which there were a number of disputes, but there were barely any when it came to the scripts for (the previous series’s) episode 25 and the final episode. I think everyone felt the same when it came to the end of the character that is Lelouch.
—–Why were you so bold as to choose this ending when the viewers might see it as a Bad End?
Okouchi: Bold… yes, we were so bold as to chose this ending. Perhaps the show that is “Code Geass” ending up this way was decided the moment Director Taniguchi and I teamed up. I suppose you can call it our sense of aesthetics, or perhaps a part of our psychological makeup.
——I see. So Lelouch’s decision was also your, Mr. Okouchi’s, and Director Taniguchi’s decision.
Okouchi: Which is why I think of both our and Lelouch’s decision as Happy Ends. I believe that there will be better things in the tomorrow awaiting Nunnally, Kallen and the rest who have been left behind. And surely Lelouch, who was able to make this into a reality, can only be happy [about this].
—–Some unresolved mysteries still remain.
Okouchi: From the very beginning, [I/we] never planned on explaining everything. In fact, if you ask me, I think we might have overdone the explanations. While it’s undeniable that Lelouch’s story has ended with a full stop, the other characters’ stories are still on-going, and it’s not like the world [of Code Geass] itself has come to an end either. [I/we] didn’t want to end it by closing it up for good.”
courtesy of http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?do=discuss&gmid=38473
And one last thing. An actual quote. You can’t contradict C2. She’s right out everything. (From Zero Requiem DVD)
“There was a boy.
He obtained the power to change the world, to create a new order.
The world was terrified of him, hated him.
… But, I know.
He, who passed away with a smile.
So. This is not a tragedy.
And yet, at the time, the night came where I sobbed with a sadness I wouldn’t resist.
I lament. A dirge. The Zero Requiem…”
courtesy of http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?do=discuss&gmid=38473
HE’S DEAD! 😦
To all those nonbelievers out there, go to this forum. It has the interview as written in 42nd volume of the Japanese magazine continue, where Ichiro Okouchi, the man behind the story line and script of Code Geass, is asked about whether Lelouch is dead or not. He says yes. It has quotes from C2 about Lulu’s death, too. Honestly, who could argue with CC?
And that youtube video showing Lelouch as the driver of the cart is a fake. The description says it.
To all those nonbelievers out there, go to this forum. It has the interview as written in 42nd volume of the Japanese magazine continue, where Ichiro Okouchi, the man behind the story line and script of Code Geass, is asked about whether Lelouch is dead or not. He says yes. It has quotes from C2 about Lulu’s death, too. Honestly, who could argue with CC?
And that youtube video showing Lelouch as the driver of the cart is a fake. The description says it.
If I remember correctly they list Lelouch Britania as dead, but when asked if Lelouch Lamprouge is dead they remained silent. Regardless, this proves nothing. They also listed Nunnally as dead for several episodes in the second season.
I suppose I’ll make my own hypothesis…
It’s possibly true that you have to inherit the code from the one you made the Contract with, but even so, I have reason to believe that Lelouch did just that: He took C.C.’s code.
Bear with me.
In what examples is it shown that whoever loses their code dies immediately? I for one do not know how that process works. In every scenario showed to us, there was evidence of wounds on those who bore the code. I don’t really believe that they bleed out simply by having their code removed. I think they die by conventional means, aka knives or flesh wounds.
C.C.’s contractor’s death was not shown. They simply showed her corpse, and a massive amount of blood. I think that she died by stabbing herself. C.C., in anguish, tried to kill herself by cutting her own chest… too late. She’s immortal now. That explains most of what the picture showed. Still with me? I hope this makes sense.
V.V. is a tricky customer. He died after having his code stolen… so clearly the massive fatality of blood loss he was suffering had no effect on him. I think this is wrong. This is what I truly believe: removing a code does not kill immediately. We assume it means this because fans created a link between C.C.’s wish and the sequence of removing her code. We don’t consider there’s another step in the process: actually killing her. Removing a code might simply remove immortality. That’s V.V.’s death sentence right there. He was literally soaked in his own blood, and if his code was removed, it’s obvious that any normal human would bleed out.
This leads me to think that Lelouch, who promised to grant C.C.’s wish, while letting her die with a smile, took her code. This would give Lelouch immortality, and, more importantly: it would offer C.C. a chance to grow old and die of AGE. This would let her die with a smile on her face. She lives on, slowly reaching the end of her long experience, able to finally know what it’s like to grow old with the current generation, while Lelouch continues existing indefinitely.
If you think this is a foolish idea, I do want people to challenge me. I can only hope this theory is correct, but if it is… Then Lelouch is almost certainly alive.
I have to disagree with this theory. I believe it is actually stated in the anime that when the code is removed, the ex-code bearer reverts to how they were before geass interfered with their life. When C.C. reverted, it was because she sealed her code, and when Charles stole V.V.’s code, he also reverted before he died. I do however agree with your thoughts that when they lose the code, they don’t die. They simply aren’t immortal anymore. Given how fast they regenerate, I would say that when Charles stole V.V.’s code, Charles then stabbed him, or wounded him at least. I don’t think he would have still been injured from the fight beforehand.
Oh and no you don’t have to inherit your contractor’s code. If that were so there would be no way for Charles to have taken C.C.’s code.
V.V. was soaked in multiple wounds when he died. They appeared to be the same as when he was wounded from his crashlanding.
Can I just say, your answers, or counterpoints, are too biased for me. And the way you end each theory with “myth busted” is just too arrogant for me, you’re just pushing your ideas onto everyone else. But it’s an old topic so it’s irrelevant now.
Now, Orange being happy that he was going to do a good thing and just accepting his masters orders just isn’t convincing. Sure, if he was really going to die, Orange would’ve almost definitely objected. Even if he finally accepted the idea, I highly doubt he would be as happy about it as he was. But, he jumped down, barely made any move against Suzaku as though allowing him to go forward, then smiles while saying “Onward, masked knight”.
Also the one with Schniezel is pointless to talk about. Whether the geass has an affect on the user might vary from geass to geass. Nunnaly became blind and crippled because of Charles’ geass, but when he died it apparently still had an effect on her. Though I’m not quite sure if what you could called being swallowed by C’s world dying, but he’s still gone more or less.
Also, he didn’t die to supposedly atone for his sins. He directed the worlds hatred onto himself, by taking over the world with a dictatorship, he was the only thing standing between the world and peace. If he had just let the world go on itself, there would’ve been more war, who knows how many countries, or states, would’ve begged for independence or whatever. He freed the world of all of that, and now they can focus on more important matters.
And about Nunnaly being able to get the connection and see Lelouch’s memories. The way I understood that, only “high potential geass users” could see it. “high potential” being someone who has the potential to use a geass and develop it fully. A lot of other people seemed to interpret it as “someone with a powerful geass”.
And finally, receiving the code from his father, Charles. When Charles grabbed him they made physical contact, he then yelled “NOW BEGONE” and they finally vanished. With the fully developed geass, he received the code.
As for myth 1, I would like to mention that it is possible that she did not see the flashback. Think about it (who said she saw this flashback;, it may have been shown for the people watching, like the red eye of Lelouch). It may very well had been that Nunally, realizing that Lelouch was dying/dead, died on purpose. People were amazed about Zero being alive and talked amid the chaos rather loudly and she probably heard it (you’d have to be deaf not to, and people lacking in one sense tend to be superior in others; by the way I don’t remember that well since I watched it last year). She tried to do the exact same thing herself, remember, so she must have understood what Lelouch did. And thus is my two cents.
I’m going to list the reasons that are for and not for lelouch living
For:
Memory Transfer-Only people with the code are able to perform a memory transfer and people with the code are immortal.
Suzaku’s Last Statement-I accept this Geass, sort of implies that Lelouch is giving Suzaku a Geass, which only code holders can do
C.C. On the Wagon-She sort of tilts her head toward the wagon driver, but it’s open to interpretation (maybe she was talking to herself), but personally, it seems to be leaning towards Lelouch being alive
Orange Smiling-Even though he would support Lelouch no matter what, he would definitely have at least watery eyes if Lelouch died
Title of the Series-Sort of pointless, but animators can be tricky like that. Code Geass, code+geass, maybe Lelouch got the code from Charles and kept his Geass, because the code was from Charles not C.C.
Not For:
Official Sources-They say that Lelouch vi Brittania was listed dead, but it could just signify that his royal life is dead, note how Lelouch uses Lelouch Lamperouge in his normal life
C.C. Praying-Why would she pray and cry for Lelouch, if she knew that he was going to live
Suzaku Crying-He’s not crying that he needs to serve the world forever and forsake his happiness, he’s not that kind of guy, he might’ve been crying that Lelouch is going to die, but it might just be part of Lelouch’s machinations, where nobody really knows every single part of his ingenious plan
Heh, I was looking for the answers and I think I found them;)
Suzaku’s Last Statement-I accept this Geass, sort of implies that Lelouch is giving Suzaku a Geass, which only code holders can do.
Yes, but the Code may obtain only a person with powerful two eyes of Geass, so it is impossible that Suzaku has the Code. Geass is from the irish mitology, it means is an idiosyncratic taboo, whether of obligation or prohibition, similar to being under a vow or spell. So maybe Suzaku’s words are just a metaphor, that he accept and he’d fulfill the obligation as a Zero.
Orange willingness to let Suzaku “kill” lulu. The way in that he protected lelouch with his life up until now I don’t think he would just let Suzaku kill Lelouch, ot even if Lelouche ordered him to accept the plan. He would not go along with it and would protect him with his life. There is only one way that Orange would be OK with a plan like that and that’s if he knew about Lelouche’s immortality, There is a scene in episode 25 CG R2, when he fought with Anya: The memorable name of the man made you taste defeat. And she says: Memorable? That’s pointless. I don’t have any memories to begin with… And he: Memories. Could that be? And he release his geass canceller. So it means, that he know that Charle’s code exist. Geass draws it’s power from the Code, and if had the Code been destroyed, the Geass would have faded. That is why Charles’ Code may still exists, now in Lelouch.
There is a scene where CC is praying in the church as Lelouch is about to be stabbed by the sword. At first glance, you might think the ”punishment” for using Geass was death… However, why would she see that as punishment when she herself had wished to die so badly? Rather, she regarded immortality as a curse…
At first I fought that Leouch died, definitely. He sacrificed himself, his death was an atonement for his sins. But, logically speaking, he may be immortal and possesses both code and a Geass, because he got his dad’s Code. He gained , and he took Charles’s code before Charles passed on. The reason why Lelouch still has his Geass is because he didn’t take the Code from the same person who gave him his Geass: he took his Geass from CC, and he took his Code from Charles. So the sacrifice was fake? I don’t think so, the sacrifice was real and he did die, his story is over, Lelouch vi Brittania doesn’t exist anymore. He payed the ultimate price for world peace by giving up his life his sister, his power, his friends, his identity, his hole life as Lelouch vi Brittania or Lelouch Lamperouge. Finally, it became clear to me that Lelouch had realized Nannally was better off without him, and had accepted that he needed to move on without her, after all, he had achieved his goal of giving her a better world to live in, one without tyrants, but in order to do this he himself needed to become the biggest tyrant of all, and therefore needed to “DIE. So finally, he became similar to CC, who lost her name and her past. Now, the last words have sense to me: Geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you… well, I guess that’s a little wrong… eh, Lelouch. They outsmart this rule, she didn’t die, Lelouch isn’t solitude, because he didn’t take the code form her, so they became immortal together… What do you think? Sorry for the language mistakes, for me English is a foreign language.
Code Geass Original Japanese ending (Lelouch lives)
lelouch everlasting
he cant die because hes imortal
So, obviously, someone on the anime must have had a Code AND a Geass. Well, there were only a couple of people with Geass (Lelouch, Rolo, Mao, etc.). Lelouch was the main character, and he also took away Charles’s Code once he killed him. A Code can be on any part of the body (C.C.’s forehead, Charles’s hand), so it makes sense that Lelouch obtained it in his right eye, thus giving him 2 Geass symbols. The Code isn’t activated until death, so when Lelouch was stabbed, his Code was activated.
» Secondly, notice the driver at the end of Code Geass. It looks like a hot summer day. Why is it that he was covered in head to toe with heavy clothing? It doesn’t make any sense–unless that happened to be Lelouch.
» When Zero/Suzaku jumps over Orange-kun to kill Lelouch, why is it that Orange-kun doesn’t go after Zero? It seemed that Orange-kun was extremely dedicated, and willing to risk his life for Lelouch. Yet, though he knew that Lelouch was in danger, he didn’t try to stop Zero.
Strange.
» Another reason why Lelouch probably had a Code was when he fell down towards Nunnally. When Nunnally touched Lelouch, she then began to see his memories. How is this possible without a Code? C.C. accidentally touched Suzaku, allowing him to see her memories. C.C. had a Code.
I highly doubt that a Geass could somehow allow a person to do that, unless of course Lelouch gained another Geass, which he didn’t.
» C.C. wouldn’t let Lelouch die since their contract had yet to be fulfilled.
It was a little weird that C.C. wasn’t to see Lelouch’s “death”. If he was going to die, I’m pretty sure that
she would have wanted to at least see it, to remember Lelouch
by the laws of biology its almost impossible to have the same eye color of purple unlesss your siblings like lelouch and nunily in the anime you have to be a sibling by blood to have the purple eyes and ive seen that the driver of the carrage had purple eyes and the hair of lelouch
c2 is not her real name; she reveals her real name to Lelouch in her sleep, and Lelouch says it again back to her, which was silent to the viewer. But it was confirmed and surely Cecilia. ass R2 FINAL Lelouch lives!!!!! (deleted scene
v2 is Vivian
the driver smurks and makes a semi gigle right after she says her speach about lelouch and ends with eh lelouch
that is why i really beleive lelouch is alive
yes i really believe that lelouch is alive………besides he is immortal now………….!!! ❤
I’m sorry but any unbiased went out when you said the facts point to Lelouch’s death.
Despite what you claim I believe strongly that you want Lelouch to be dead.
I do not care for your reason, for any reason possible for this is foolishness to me.
Bottom line, Nunnaly does not have telepathic powers and merely can tell if someone is lying by holding their hand which alone puts the weight in favor to Lelouch being alive.
More importantly, the original Japanese ending shows Lelouch as alive as the cab driver that C.C. was on.
C.C. was always a glorified character, so to think that they would screw her over with a life of loneliness in the end when she above all characters deserved what she desired in the end, again adds doubt on already sufficient doubt to believe you are indeed unbiased.
Also, please don’t make the mistake of questioning the significance of C.C. gaining what she wanted as it would only show how little you grasp of her fanbase from every level in the anime in both Japan and America.
Anyhow, the reason I brought up the original ending was merely to show that it was planned for the facts to point to Lelouch’s immortality.
For you to dismiss them and state the opposite makes what you said nonredeemable of being biased in your blogs.
However, the director switched out the original ending just for this to happen.
He decided maybe some would want to believe Lelouch died so he purposely left it ambiguous to if he died or not.
Personally, I believe this was a mistake.
C.C and Lelouch deserved a clear ending released to the public showing they both had a good end.
It is true, I admit I am bias to ending that assert tragedies and misfortunes on characters that I have great care for; but, on the other hand I don’t run a blog so I can get away with it.
More on the matter though, the original ending is the true ending which supports the actual facts.
are indeed biasd*
Typo. zzz
CC praying in Asford´s Church scene: Why ?
Well, in my opinion She was crying because Lelouch´s choice of a life of absolute SOLITUDE. CC said: ” Lelouch as punishment for using Geass in people…” Do you think death is the punishment ? No, it have been stated all the time in the series that Geass brings solitude. That´s what CC was refering to, Lelouch chosed the way of absolute Solitude, the inmortality. Plus his memory will ever be as a slaughter-dictator, he won´t ever be with his beloved ones, as Nunna and his friends, he has to deal with all the crimes he did for all eternity, he won´t be affected by time or death while Nunna and the others will…..
That lead us to CC´s final statement: ” Geass brings solitude. that´s not quite accurate, isn´t it….. Lelouch?”
That´s true, it isn´t quite accurate as she will stand with Lelouch for all eternity, and they will never be alone.
I have one reason for believing he is still alive… The crane. if you notice the final scene with C.C. on the wagon, towards the top of her head is a crane. Now why would C.C. have this crane. This is something that Lelouch would have to remind himself of Nunnally. This reason may not seem legit to you, but to me it is.
I think a lot of people miss something at the end when lelouch is talking to suzaku after suzaku stabs him and it is evidence that lelouch now has a code and is immortal. He explains a contract to suzaku saying that he must be zero for all eternity and suzaku says “this geass i do solemnly except.” The only way lelouch could give him geass is if he has a code himself. What would be the point in saying it that way if he didn’t have a code? THERE WOULD BE NONE!
The point is at that point in the anime they were using metaphor for geass being the same as a promise, so “this geass I do solemnly accept,” is the same as saying “this promise I do solemnly accept.” Basically it boils down to how you want to see it.
Exactly. But, as i´ve already said, the clue is in Church´s scene ( of which i´ve already talked about). Plus i´ve you consider the meaning Church symbol had to CC in Code Geass: It was the place were she was given her Geass=Wish ( literaly) and where she was given her curse/burden Code=inmortality. It may be related with Lelouch´s situation in the end ( that´s why she is in the church perhaps).
More hidden clues: Nunnally´s vision: If you hear carefully, You can notice it´s the same melody/sound played during Code moments ( counsciousness crush or something like that CC named it ).
Charles atempting to Choke Lelouch: If he wanted he could just strangle him, he is a tough guy and he could have done it perfectly, but he didn´t. Plus when Lelouch yells “BEGONE” a weird Geass activating sound is perfomed…. shall i tell you why ?
Kami/God´s being Geassed: If you watch carefully the sequence of turn 21 in which Lelouch develop a mature Geass and so, you can notice at first God is geassed en the panoramic view of C´s realm (( in that moment, Akasha´s sword starts to crumble, and the glued-bodies start to disappear ). when Charles and Marianne are starting to disappear, God is shown in another panoramic view of C´s realm WITHOUT BEING GEASSED, buth with a small shine. And after Marianne and Charles disapperar, another panoramic view appears and God is shown without shinning.
Ppl, The Code hadn´t disappear as Lelouch´s order to God disappear when Charles was already alive and with the Code. So it´s easy to state that it had a hge chance to transfer it to Lelouch.
I’m for Lelouch being alive. What I was saying is that the scene with Suzaku accepting a “geass” is not definitive proof that Lelouch has a code, as Kevin was stating it was. I’m not trying to dispute or confirm anything else
imho, he’s alive :3 my theory has a bajillion holes in it, i probably forgot some facts in the story that will prove me wrong, hell my version aint even factually based, but whatever i like to be delusional 😀
ahem.
lelouch goes through with the plan, fully intending to die by suzaku’s hands. he has no clue he is immortal (charles theory), until he wakes up later, alive and well 😀 only c.c. and orange boy were in on the plan, and they travel away together to start anew. this way, technically lelouch atones for his sins with death, as he truly believed he was going to die, and is reborn, to gain a new chance for a life where he can truly live a life for himself, a life he never had a chance to have 🙂
i really want a sequel, for him to come back with c.c. like 200 years from now when there’s a new war/conflict of some sort, and reignite the legend of zero all over again. that. would. be. epic.
He’s alive. Everyone knows it. In the end he got immortality and him and Cecilia got to live a normal life away from everyone else. The ‘requiem’ was just another trick/game to everyone, everything was. He knew he was immortal, he planned everything. He always plans everything.
Lelouch is a genius and will live on forever. You’re only lying to yourselves.
Just a small comment here, regarding Nunnally’s contact ability. Many, many times in the series, Nunnally touched Lelouch after he became Zero and was completely unawares of his new identity. I believe her ability is limited to whether someone is lying/uneasy only. I believe Lelouch became an immortal, and that is why only at the very end was Nunnally able to glean his plan. I’d appreciate criticism on this.
I’d like to add another thing. I thought a lot about this and I think I solved it.
Lelouch took C.C.’s code to become immortal.
It’s been “assumed” that when someone’s code is taken, they die, but in V.V.’s case he had suffered mortal wounds at the time his code was taken. Otherwise he would likely have continued living, as a mortal. Likewise, when Charles was taking C.C.’s code, it was “assumed” she would die right away, but V.V. didn’t. He was bleeding out of his freakin’ head when he died. She likely would have died *afterwards* by Charle’s hand or her own.
This also explains why Nunnally was about to see Lelouch’s memories when she touched him while he was weakened.
So Lelouch took C.C.’s code to become immortal, and C.C. cried for Lelouch because he was giving up his past, his Geass, and his mortality.
This also explains why Nunnally was *able to see Lelouch’s memories when she touched him while he was weakened.
*typo
But It doesn’t explain why C.C. had her memories in the end. If she had given up her code she would have reverted to before she had it, as V.V. had.
Yeah with a little more digging I realized that. Then I found the quote where C.C. told Lelouch he’d be immortal if he fulfilled her contract. Maybe all he did was finally fulfill the contract and gained it that way, right at the end. Right where Charles was about to take C.C.’s code.
Your reasoning could work if we knew more about how the transfer worked. If they retain their memory after the geass user completed the contract rather than taking it by force then it would be valid. However there is no evidence of either of those taking place so it’s just speculation.
can someone sack my cack?
No, Lelouch has Charle´s Code. It has been implied that death is needed to ACTIVATE a Code, not to ADCQUIRE it. Lelouch adcquire the Code in turn 21. But he only activated it in turn 25, when Suzaku stabbed and killed him. That´s why he could use his Geass. After the death, the Geass is removed.
I´m saying this based on what we watched. Do you really think the Nun killed CC without reason? Because is a fact she killed her, in turn 25 S1 Lelouch went to her memories and watched all her deaths throughout her story, from the more recents till the first one. And the last scene shown was the one of CC en the Church covered by blood… guess what does that mean.
There is a serie called Inmortals,, which uses a similar concept to the one showed in CG. Some people are “potential inmortals” and till their death, their inmortality is not achived. When they die, they enter into a stasis state which allow them not to age, nor to grow. And the inmortals are able to kill between them.
Plus Nunna´s vision. If you hear carefully, you can notice the sound ( in a lower density, but clearly differenciated from the music of the event ) that was shown during CC´s encounters of minds with Suzaku and Lelouch in turn 11 S1.
intensity*
Lelouch was not made immortal at the time Charles grabbed him with his right hand because he continued to cast Geass upon people afterwards. Once a person receives a Code (making them immortal), then they lose the ability to cast Geass upon people. They can only bestow Geass upon people.
The only way that Lelouch was made immortal is within the two months after he secured Damocles, C.C. bestowed her Code upon him. Therefore two conclusion can be drawn from this:
#1 – This might be false because C.C. was still alive (death follows the transference of the Code).
#2 – Lelouch did not kill C.C. after the transference of the Code.
I’m pretty sure that the ending was a Jesus metaphor (Lelouch fell in the position of a cross) – Lelouch bore the world’s sin and sacrificed his life for all. However, as we all know – Jesus is not dead! 🙂
Again, you fall in the same mistake as many people:
It has been implied that death is needed to ACTIVATE a Code, not to ADCQUIRE it. Lelouch adcquire the Code in turn 21 from his departing Daddy. But he only activated it in turn 25, when Suzaku stabbed and killed him. That´s why he could use his Geass till the very end. After the death, the Geass is removed .
I´m saying this based on what we watched. Do you really think the Nun killed CC without reason? Because is a fact she killed her, in turn 25 S1 Lelouch went to her memories and watched all her deaths throughout her story, from the more recents till the first one. And the last scene shown was the one of CC en the Church covered by blood… guess what does that mean.
There is a serie called Inmortals,, which uses a similar concept to the one showed in CG. Some people are “potential inmortals” and till their death, their inmortality is not achived. When they die, they enter into a stasis state which allow them not to age, nor to grow. And the inmortals are able to kill between them.
Plus Nunna´s vision. If you hear carefully, you can notice the sound ( in a lower intensity, but clearly differenciated from the music of the event ) that was shown during CC´s encounters of minds with Suzaku and Lelouch in turn 11 S1. In that moment Code Activated through Death.
That would be “acquire”.
For the most part, I have trouble taking someone who can’t even spell correctly seriously, but here’s my opinion:
Lelouch is dead. He’s an awesome character, but I think the writers meant for him to die. Lelouch’s intent through death was to bring all of the world’s hatred upon himself and atone for his sins. If he carries on living a happy life with C.C, then it would defeat the whole purpose of the Zero Requiem.
It’s fairly obvious that Code claimer was typing fast and just hit “d” and “c” in the same keystroke. I have trouble taking grammar Nazi’s seriously, but here’s my opinion:
Lelouch isn’t dead. He’s an awesome character, and I think the writers meant for him to live. Lelouch’s intent through death was to bring all of the world’s hatred upon himself and atone for his sins. If he carries on living a happy life with C.C, then he would be able to enjoy the world he created and made the ultimate sacrifice to obtain, by way of the Zero Requiem.
The point is that he was punished too.
Let´s think about it. He wanted to atone his sins. Thus he felt guilty of killing all that people. Isn´t inmortality the worst punishment he could ever achive? He would have been forced to live forever with his sins, repenting for all eternity.
Let´s think a bit more. Isn´t a real punishment being alive and an inmortal hiding from the world, knowing your loving ones ( including his beloved sister Nunna ) will eventuall age and die although he CAN´T ? He is going to live a life of SOLITUDE, that´s a fact. Though CC says it´s not quite accurate, as she is going to be with him during his self-imposed exile. He cannot intercat with anyone, he must be in the shades.
He will see what is going to happen without taking part. He will see if his achivement with the Zero Requiem collapses ( making his sacrifice in vain )or not, he´ll know what would happen to his friends and sister ( for example if Nunna eventually marries somebody or if she has an offspring… ). But he won´t be with them.
Moreover, death was the EASY way. It is a coward decision.. In my opinion Lelouch´s ultimate goal with the Zero Requiem was creating a new situation in which people could chose. If they want to fight, they will. Plus being inmortal will tear him apart from his beloved ones FOREVER as they will met all again when they´ll die and go to C´s realm; but he, as being unable to die; won´t ever return to C´s realm.
Code Geass is very influenced by ” V for Vendetta”. Their similarities are pretty obvios. Though i going to paraphrase one of V´s speeches ( well, as accurate as i can remember ): ” Today the Yesterdays/Old/Past World reaches its twilight…….I´ve realised that the decision don´t belong to me to make, it belongs to the people of the tomorrow ”
V knew he only was the detonator of the change. The same happened with Lelouch here. Lelouch had to achive that situation. But he WON´T be part of the change itself. He is part of the Old World. And due to that he has to hide for a long, long time ( few generations or even more ) till it´s safe for him to expose. And it doesen´t matter when he will expose as his direct relatives and friends will be dead.
Nah, it´s a light punishment being an inmortal…. It has more meaning dieing in that moment….
PS: I´m really sorrowful about my grammar. English isn´t my mother language so don´t make a big fuss about it.
Sure…
*Correctios to the language puritans:
-Doesn´t belong to me
-Obvious
-dying
If you notice more, they aren´t the big deal, so as i wrote, don´t make a big fuss about ir
*it 🙂
You guys are all nerds. Have a life or better yet, have a girlfriend, your hand wouldnt be as strained ‘cus you got someone to wank you off.
P.S. Dont make the idea of someone wanking you off when you’re dead.
Yes because leaving a comment like that just screams “I have a girlfriend and don’t live in my parent’s basement.” Seriously, grow up. And if you really want to know, my boyfriend satisfies me regularly.
I just want him to fulfill his contract, and then he and C2 can have little Code Geass babies, since Shirley, and Kallen are out of the question. Who knows, maybe C2 gets her humanity back and decides to live another couple centuries. Then they will pass on their code to their children and die, blessing/cursing their children, then their children will have more children, pass on their code because they are sick of living and so there will be a continuous chain of geass babies.
Lelouch is dead, people. Stop complaining. Anything not sure of just refer to Code Geass’s light novels. They will explain everything, covering from Toudoh’s miracle up to Lelouch’s death. Marianne’s past included. So shut up already. Nunnally’s images were due to Marianne’s experiment on her and Lelouch.
The mind fusing between C.C. and Suzaku is because of Suzaku’s clan. Why Kururugi has a shrine? Most people ignored that, but the truth is Suzaku comes from the five biggest clan of the world, and do remember, the activation of Charles’ code starts with all shrines. Geass has a lot to do with ancient powers like this. For in depth knowledge read the light novels, and when you are terrified of the evilest villian of all, (SPOILER: Marianne), do weep for Lelouch’s death.
SPOILER: Ahem. A family of four, Nunnally, Lelouch, Marianne and Charles, please do believe me that the ones who can considered kindest of all is Lelouch and Charles. Nunnally and Marianne are damn scary!
Uh, we have one of those guys who like to decide other’s definite of truth… If someone want’s to believe he’s alive, what right do you have to say their wrong? I suggest anybody who wishes to think he’s alive, ignore this asshole because it’s obvious he doesn’t respect freewill. Besides the light novels and anime differ in many regards, if people wish to treat that has non-canon to each other, that’s understandable…. I do. This is one case where the anime is the superior telling.
I meant “definition of truth” in the first line and I mean “treat them has” in the second to last line. Pardon the mistakes.
I have a few questions… First about Mao he lost control of his geass and had it in both eyes was he also immortal though i think not as he attributed his recovery to medical advances not his immortality…plus he could still use geass. In R2 in the world of C Lelouch has his geass awakened in both eyes after already losing control of it in S1 is that just him getting stronger with his geass if so how? Is it ever explicitly stated when you become immortal i think cc mentions it somewhere and once one “unlocks” their geass’s true potential do you obtain the ability to become immortal then. Why does it never explain how Mao failed his contract with CC assuming its the same one she has with Lelouch he advanced his geass to an extent what is the peak point that allows one to be immortal or swap places with the giver of ones geass. From CC’s stand point shouldn’t she just stick it out with one geass user until they mature enough to allow them to master it so she can die. Sorry for all the Mao questions so after leaving marianne and charles she finds mao raises him then dumps him only to be captured by clovis all in the span of what 10 or so years ummm say what??? ok i think thats all the questions i have for now 🙂
this is just a little thing I noticed. I know it doesn’t really speak much is saying Lelouch is alive or anything. However while looking at that second picture down, the wagon driver. . . .I couldnt help but notice his neckerchief. It makes me wonder. Again, it proves nothing. Just thought it was kind of funny.
For all of you said that he is DEAD… you are ALL WRONG … deleted scene:
This is a fake.
this is not fake…………this is all true…………!!!!!!!
Actually it isn’t fake, it may be to you but you can’t prove that stance. If someone including me wants to think of it has a “true” ending, where free to do so.
Actually, it is a fake. Fake, as in this clip is fan created. This is not an official video, and therefore cannot be used in basing your decision.
It really does not matter if this is a fake or not if you listen to what she said you’ll find that she is no longer lonely. The terms of her contract dictate that Lelouch has to kill her; however, in an earlier episode Lelouch says to her that he finally understands what she truly desires, and that, I can only assume based on her manifested geass ability, is to be loved and to no longer be alone. She is content with the ending of it all because she is no longer alone, and Lelouch will now share her fate of immortality.
agree!
i think when Charles grabbed Lelouch’s neck, he transferred the code to him. but he is still alive in the world of c. that’s why Anya still had the geass affect on her even after he died. when Charles and Marianne “died” they didn’t actually die. they more like “disappeared” into the world of c. when Rolo killed the kids on Kamine Island, one of them had an affect of geass on a soldier. so when Rolo killed them, the soldier’s geass affect wearied away. the kids didn’t pass into the world of c. they simply died. unlike Charles and Marianne. so simply stating, lelouch is alive
The person who casts the geass doesn’t need to be alive for it to be in affect (depending on the geass). The kid on the island’s geass faded when he died because his geass was channeled and made the target do whatever he did, so when he died that affect wore off. Its like how Mao can’t read minds when hes dead, because he’s dead, and how if Rolo had died while stopping time, time would have resumed upon his death. However, geass like what Marianna, Charles, Lelouch had, didn’t need to be maintained to be in affect, so it persists after they die.
I think that Lelouch is dead. He’s always been the calm type of person, so asking Suzaku to murder him won’t be something that he’d back out on at the last minute. Also, when the Black Knights found out Lelouch’s geass, and were going to kill him, he was completely fine with it. He himself said that he had “nothing left to live for”. Nunnally was taken away, and the Black Knights had suspicion against him. Even Rolo died saving him.
It was a really disappointing ending though, but I think it really fits. Lelouch saved the world and nobody knew about it. The world pretty much hated him. He didn’t have Nunally, Rolo, Shirley, or his friends at school so it’s a pretty fitting ending. I was really happy that Nunnally knew the truth about his death and forgave him, and that at Lelouch’s last moments of life, he knew that someone still loved him.
.
That’s a really long discussion, huh?
I believe Lelouch is alive… well, he being dead would be cooler, maybe,
but, for me at least, things that were already said here are some good evidences of him being alive.
One thing I could add is that the survival rate of the characters is pretty high in CG
Guilford and Mao for example,
(caught up in a gigantic explosion, get lots of bullets in the chest, etc)
they all seemed pretty dead, but miraculously reappeared afterwards.
(This was just some funny comment, don’t take it seriously).
Now really… People said lots of things already, like the producers having the trouble
making the all corever up cart driver and the paper crane.
But what makes me think that he truly is alive is what C.C. said at the end.
The power of kings making a person lonely… and that was wrong.
Now… Lelouch took all the hate of the world… he isolated himself from even the very reason of his doings, Nunnaly. And died like that.
If he was dead, them C.C. wouldn’t have said that “that is wrong” about him being lonely.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CART DRIVER!?!?!?!
depends if nunally had telepathy superpowers or not, that were only revelead in the last episode.
if not (the obvious take), it’s one more hint.
also, the whole code geass series had lots of twists with suposed dead characters not being dead at all. even CC was thought to be dead until around episode 4, marianne thought dead until episode 18 of season 2, nunally thought dead, and the list goes on.
the orange dude would painfully obey lelouch orders if it was for him to die, not gladly. It wasn’t in his extreme loyalty trait to kill his master and be all happy about it, at least he was suposed to get sad for a while, no? but he didn’t. He had a happy non-evil satisfied smirk on his face. even on the geass research center he disobeyed lelouch orders to kill cornelia just because she was a former master of his.
And the only way CC is happy at the end saying that lelouch didn’t end alone, instead of being indifferent and nihilistic/indifferent to things as usual, is that lelouch is alive, keeping his promise in damocles of coming back alive and making her “smile”.
And, the name of the series is the biggest hint of all: >Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2. Since most of japanese cannot say L’s without replacing them with R, R2 would make for an L.L. engrish version of L.L.
Also the Codes just doesn’t magically disappear, it’s a huge bother to get rid of it, like you see with the nun and CC trying years to get rid of it despite having acess to C world. Charles Code hugely likely to have gone to lelouch, mainly considering lelouch had dual geass and was ready to receive it.
unless you can bust the original japanese ending and CC’s statement with a FACT and not some deductions(because everyone believes differently and everyone has diff. deductions so this would just bring the ass out of us) I would insist that Lelouch is still alive .. or maybe not “alive” maybe of another sort but surely is not dead..
Lelouch have to be alive to fulful CC’s wish. Everyone seem to have missed an important part in ep 15 about CC’s TRUE WISH. It was not to die – that was the nun’s wish, not her, but something she have adopted as her own because of the loneliness she have felt after becoming immortal. CC’s true wish “was to be loved”.
Also, are people aware that paper crane symbolizes? If you fold a thousand crane, the crane grant you a wish. You see a paper crane at the end, next to CC. CC was taught how to fold crane by Nunnaly. What was CC’s wish? To be loved, and I think it was fulfilled
Are u implying that lelouch is dead or alive. I think u brought up a good point,but the crane can imply two things.One, that Lelouch is dead and c.c is glad that she found some one that has loved her, thus acceptung lelouch’s death. Or that he is alive abd the crane reveals C.C’s wishth find some one to love her, meaning that lelouch and C.C end up together.
What about when they folded only one crane when they were shooting fireworks and only Lelouch came. Since they only folded one, only one came, Lelouch
To backup Lelouch got his immortality to Charles by studying Charles character. Charles is a guy that don’t lie and he truly care Lelouch and Nunnaly but his vision of the world is wrong that Lelouch wont accept it. Charles stated this on episode 21 grabbing Lelouch neck “Deny me and what awaits you will be schneizel’s world”, as he realize he’s disappearing there’s a possibility that he willingly give Lelouch his code(code can be passed by stealing it or willingly giving it). About the ending Lelouch entire life is a lie but he cant lie to C.C.(as she’s the only one who truly knows Lelouch, and Lelouch is the one who truly knows C.C).
About their contract with C.C. (S1Ep.15) Lelouch said he will both grant their wish and he will fulfill the contract that mao couldn’t. Lelouch will change the world and C.C’s true wish is to be love(not to die). And now Lelouch done his part its his time to grant C.C’s wish. He dont have reason to lie to C.C because they are accomplice.
And in addition isn’t coincidence that Lelouche geass became fully mature at world of C. Think of it 🙂
Good thing is Sunrise will finally finalized this the myth if Lelouch is dead or alive. The only one who can tell us is CC (not CC monologue in Zero requiem special edition coz that monologue is metamorphic in sense), but where is she? Kiseki no Tanjoubi didnt point out her current location or whats she doing, while Kallen, Suzaku, Nina and the rest we know what theyre doing.
So how will Sunrise explain the real situation to us? They finally decided to make a movie. Yes, a movie. To end all speculations so that Sunrise can move on as well (coz after Code Geass, all anime projects after that including gundam 00, scared seven etc are all flops, Code Geass was their last hit maker). \
meanwhile watch out for clues, yes , we may find clues about lelouch whether its a backstory, a prequel or sequel, and Akito the Exiled might explain how Geass works and the EU connection to R1 and r2. yes, we should all be alert on that project. and Nunnally in Wonderland might be another dream like Kiseki no Tanjoubi, i am curious what the cast are currently doing right now…
lelouch can not be dead because he has both eyes like c2 which makes him imortal! long live lelouch 😀
I for one think he faked his death, I mean, come on, this is Lelouch we’re talking about, he outsmarted the world, I THINK he could manage to fake a simple stabbing…and in the end where C.C. is talking to “Lelouch”, she mentions that the Geass power would lead to loneliness, OR SO SHE THOUGHT…whihc could be a not so subtle hint that Lelouch would not be alone because C.C. would be with him, since they have a sort of “thing” going on…and besides, why would she say he wouldn’t be alone if he was dead? You can’t get much moar alone than that. His Zero Requiem still works, he still saves the world, and he just gets to vanish into obscurity with his beloved C.C.
You have a point on the first reason but to affirm it nunnally was not the only one affected by lelouch becoming immortal if you watch it again anya was also affected by lelouch when she fought cc the first time she couldn’t move and it happened again after Charles died but this time it was with lelouch same reaction though and it never happened before that though they were with each other before.
no!!!! lelouch didnt die
think of it
.
.
in the ending of ending episode of code geass,
it is in the cart turning her head,, i checked which way she turned when she said “right lelouch”
and it was toward the driver,,…and if u look closely u can see..
black hair and purple eyes…the mouth is covered and why someone would let cc ride in a cart and the reason they showed the sky is to show the happy end..
so moving from the ending of episodes 20-21
Charles vi britania
everyone should know his name he gave lelouch his code when he died
so he became powerful and c.c gave him
IMMORTALITY to get the code you either make a contract or you kill them then theres also if that code touches you lelouch did’nt kill Charles vi Britania what happened was lelouch slightly used geass on god himself to kill mariane and charles so then god gained charle’s code and passed
it to lelouch then lelouch passed it to c.c because of c.c lost her geass
now if you dont know what c.c’s ability is it is to heal and not having to breath for a long time
but…
this thread’s about wheather Lelouch really died or not.
There’s a popular theory going on that Lelouch is alive & he received Charles’s code.
But sorry to break this to u people, Lelouch is stone dead!!
I hav some very concrete points to prove it:
Please read fully:
The director himself confirmed it in a magazine to stop rumours that he’s alive…
All the videos r fan made so don’t believe in them…
Such a long death scene could’nt possibly be fake….
Also so many people had died because of him,so its impossible for him to make a clean slate,without some punishment.
As for him stealing the Emperor’s code,the code must be given willingly and cannot be stolen.
Also, other immortals(VV & the nun who gave CC the geass)died after the code was taken from them.But the Emperor’s body disintegrated,which means the code went with him.
And as for Lord Jermiah smiling in the end,Jermiah agreed to serve Lelouch because he was Marianne’s son & he declared that Empress Marianne was his master.
So if Lelouch had just told him that he was the one who killed Marianne,then Jermiah would hav willingly supported zero requiem.
And Nunnally seeing his memories,it was probably a way to show she realized.Because if Nunnally just saw lelouch’s memories…would’nt she know he is immortal?..Because seeing somebody’s memories is unnatural…so if she saw them did’nt she wonder why she was suddenly seeing them?
Then she must hav figured out he was not normal, but immortal…because she already knew abt geass and immortals.Then why was she crying?
Another example is Suzaku’s tears as he stabbed Lelouch.
The fact that he cried in that perticular moment as he pierced Lelouch suggests that, that perticular moment was his moment of death.
Because if not theres no need to cry as stabbing him’s just an act for the people.
And don’t tell me Lelouch did’nt tell abt the code to Suzaku, he’s not that kind of person.He’s more of the kind to bear all the pain himself.
Besides the one biggest point which proves his death was CC’s tears.She definately would’nt hav cried if he was gonna live.
Also there was a simillarity in Lelouch’s death & Euphimia’s death.Both died being hated & and with everyone screaming Zero’s name aft they died.Which implies that this is also Lelouch’s punishment for killing Euphy .
And the director has also said that Lelouch’s body was kept in Damocles & sent to the sun.It makes sense too.
Because Damocles getting destroyed represented evil & hatred getting destroyed.So its only logical that the symbol of hatred : Lelouch was sent along with it.
In fact the primary reason Damocles got destroyed was bcoz it was Lelouch’s ship.
And remember the last thing that Lelouch saw before dying was the sun?
CC too looks at the sky/sun while talking to Lelouch in the end.
So with his body destroyed without a trace, how can he reappear, even if he had a code?
Besides CC addresses Lelouch in the end in the same way she used to address Marianne, whos physical body has disappeared.So its safe to assume that, she was either talking to his sprit or addressing him in fond memory.
The beauty of the ending is in Lelouch’s death.It would make so much sense if Nunnally was crying while everyone celebrated his death,only if he was really dead.
And the fact that we still don’t hav season 3 proves it!!
If u want further proof visit this thread:
http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/10/code-geass-r2-another-nail-in-lelouchs-coffin
Most people say he’s alive because wat happened to him was so unfair and they want to convience themselves that the ending is a more happy one.
But they just need to understand Lelouch is doing this as a redemption for his past sins. For all the people he has killed or caused to die, for the people he has manipulated, and as compensation for using Geass on people. If we believe (as I do) that Lelouch is atoning for himself, then he’s committed himself to death — it just wouldn’t make any sense if he was still alive.
Because I am tired I am not going to write much here. They said that Lelouch Vi Brittania was dead, not Lelouch Lamprouge. Lelouch Vi Brittania was also dead in the entire first season.
Also, death is the easy way out. What in Lelouch’s character would make you thing that he would take the easy path? Just listen to C.C. when she talks about it, immortality is the real punishment.
Concrete evidence? Don’t make me laugh, the creators of this show intentionally left evidence to support both claims, yet also left enough to doubt both.
I dont think vv gave up his code willingly to charles
Lelouch’s death was beautiful. I’m not trying to be creepy or anything, but to take over the world and take all the anger and hate on your shoulders, to take that burden and plan your own death so as to give the world a second chance, is simply beautiful. I want to believe that he was the unsung hero, the despised yet secretly courageous and honorable man. His death was the most meaningful any character or person could ever hope for. However, I’ve always been a sucker for love stories. Guess I’m a big ol’ softy when I think about it. I hope Lelouch lived and is with C.C. I hope that they appear in a code geass r3 or whatever, but only as minor roles. I hope that it’ll cut to them living their lives in happiness and commenting on the state of the world, maybe secretly helping out in a couple major pivotal roles of the season 3. Or I hope that it goes to a distant future and Lelouch has to don the mask of Zero again, maybe because Suzaku died or got too old, i don’t really care. But I do want them to make a season 3 with Lelouch and C.C. together.
Christ, I must be a faggot. Guess I’m gonna have to come out of the closet sometime then. I just can’t help but be moved by love stories. They bring tears to my eyes man. I WANT A FRIGGIN HAPPILY EVER AFTER!!!! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR!!!!!!!!!!!
But he’s probably dead with the most heroic death nobody knows about and C.C’s eternally lonely. Cuz lifes a bitch. And by the time they do make an r3 with all of my hopes for the show in it, I won’t be around to see it. Wanna know why? cuz I’ll be 6 feet under, probably hit by an I.E.D. or a suicide bomber in the middle of the friggin desert cuz lifes a bitch. and if I somehow magically live through my tour with my shitty luck, I just won’t care about this show anymore. Cuz apparently thats what getting shot at does to you. Makes you stop wasting time dreaming of a fantasy life and makes you start living your own.
Guess I kind of went off there a bit, didn’t I?
I think it could have been Sioco who was in Lelouch’s place which would explain why she was not chanied up with the rest of them. Then Lelouch could be the driver because who would let C2 hich a ride ya now
lelouchandcc-msingh.webs.com/ check it out
What about the white house in the distance in the last scene? It was just like the one Mao talked about that was secluded from the rest of the world. Im saying that that was a way for them to be alone and for both of them to finally “live.” Whether they are immortal together I dont know, but what I do know is that even in real life faking death is a possibility. They couldnt stay in Japan or in the Britannian Empire and would have to move to some place where no one would immediately recognize them, what better place than an peaceful place in Australia. Im a strong supporter for him being alive just because Im a sucker for happy endings.
Long Live Lelouch vi Britannia
~Possiblydominator
Lelouch is still ALIVE! Did anyone pay attention to the DVD ending after C.C finshed talking”and clearly talking to Lelouch” It goes back to the driver who laughs faintly and smiles and you can clearly tell its lelouch and theres no mistaking that he is still alive. You can see the ending DVD ending at this link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeHmVBf0NJ8
well now, there’s one thing with your assumptions concerning C.C. talking to herself. When you say C.C. was talking to Marianne, but Marianne wasn’t around, you do realize that Marianne had the ability to communicate telepathically with C.C., Anya did not have to be near her. In fact, i haven’t ever seen C.C. talk to herself, whenever it appeared she was talking to herself, she was actually talking to Marianne. So does it really make sense to say she was just “talking to the sky”? C.C. never talks to anyone but herself…or Marianne, so i would say that comment towards the end actually goes more towards her talking to Lelouch.
wait i just screwed myself up. what i meant to say is C.C. never talks to herself, but always to someone unseen. So the comment towards the end actually goes towards her talking to lelouch. sorry peeps.
well this is a loop maybe hes dead or maybe hes alive its like the movie inception you dont know if the guy is in limbo or not so the idea of this anime is to think carefully about it theres a lot of possibilities that he is alive and yet again that he is dead we may never know but yet the creator made this into a big thing so lets just leave it how it is you think he is alive hes alive yo think hes dead then hes dead but i believe he is alive
i don’t know if this is already said.. i’m a bit lazy reading all the above comments.. i think lelouch is alive..
C.C.’s real wish = to be loved (not to die), lelouch discovered this somewhere in the second season. And also somewhere in the second season, lelouch said that he will definitely finish the contract she made with C.C.
the end of code geass came, therefore lelouch should have completed his contract, which means that the only possible way to finish the contract is he will accompany C.C. and love C.C. forever. Also we see C.C. happy and with a very positive dialogue, something like the power of geass making people lonely but not. Therefore the two of them (lelouch and C.C.) plans to be happy forever.
I believe he is alive,
I refer to the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2V8NcmpfOk
” This is the original Japanese ending of Code Geass which shows the cart driver smiling after C.C makes her speech. The shape of his face and hairstyle look exactly like Lelouch’s and the fact that he smiles at what C.C say’s pretty much confirms it. This was however cut out of the Japanese version and never shown on the English dub. The writers wanted the viewers to decide what happens in the end so this takes away the imagination of the viewers leaving them with an answer. Code Geass R3 was confirmed but with different characters so Lelouch won’t be there anyway. The point of showing him alive was probably to make the ending even happier because he managed to make everyone happy except for C.C who was trying to find love for over 200 years and finally did only to have him taken away. With this ending he wipes himself out of existence to make the world happy, but lives together in hiding with C.C with immortality.”
I believe THIS is what really happend, it would be the closest to our reality and how people function.. the writers had a change of heart..
SO I do think he is a live but he won’t be making it back to the series..
Which is a Dumbass move on their side because Lelouch is Thé character from the series.. not just because he’s the main antagonist but unlike other series where you might hate the main character but the supporting cast is strong enough to make you watch it, in GC you had that aswell but with the big plus that the lelouch is such a badass through out the series.. That after the final episode.. you Just want to see more 😉
TBH I would have found it funny if he actually became the badass evil guy he made himself to be ;P ” World domination a la Death Note ” style 😉 Everyone behaving perfectly according to how human beings should treat eachother or else .. What was your name againn?? Ahhh Dead… Wrong name?? OBEY!! !!
These are all good ideas, but have you guys seen the unreleased part of this? There is a scene that the translators left out. The first myth, where she is talking to lelouch(Who everyone presumes to be dead), the cart driver actually RESPONDS. He doesn’t say anything, but you can see him smile and act as if he is acknowledging her.
Annnnnddd this must seem really noobish. xD
LeLouch is alive, and we’ll see in the new side story if he truly is.
besides if u watch the DVD japanese ending blah blah you’ll see him still alive
ok lets say lelouch is or was in C’s world. There are two instances that i can think of that proves he either wont be there for long or by the last scenes of the series is already on earth. Instance one: When lelouch is attacking V2 and all of the geass followers and V2 is flying the sigfried and its being destroyed by lelouch and cornilia, here is what the ppl that work under him say, and this is quote for quote. Man 1: “The Sigfried!!” Man 2: “Director V2!!!” Man 3: “Calm down…Remember Director V2
can not be killed, he can always use the twilight gate on the lowest level..” Now why would they throw this in there? We dont know what the hell this twilight gate is, but since V2 can use it to come back and considering that Lelouch absorbs Charles’ code the same way Charles absorbs V2’s code, why would lelouch be able to use this twilight gate to come back.This is on episode 14 on the second season. Now for instance two. While Lelouch, Charles, and Marianne are in C’s world talking Charles says this, again quote for quote. CHARLES: “I sent both you and your sister to escape my brother’s sight, that’s also why I had Marieanne’s body secretly taken away…” MARIEANNE: “As long as my body still exists there is the possibility i will be able to return to it…” Now marieanne was just a mere geass user and only used her geass once and lelouch is a master geass user with his geass fully developed and not to mention stole his fathers code. So if marieanne is possibly able to return to her body after all of those years of being dead and only using her geass one time i find it very hard to believe that lelouch is still dead or even died in the first place…
Righto I’m going to be super annoying and sum up the theories to Lelouch being alive even though most have already been put here – I’ll just do it more briefly and with better grmmar and spelling. Code Geass is a super clever series and the entire series is simply astounding in it’s depth, clues and foreshadowing.
-Orange was fine with him ‘dying’ : He only would be if he was in on Lelouch being immortal.
-C2 impersonated Lelouch at the end: I don’t think this is very probable as as he was dying he proclaimed to Nunally “I destroyed the world and created anew..” which is a very private and contradictary thing for C2 to be saying, also Nunally saw Lelouch’s memories not C2’s.
-Lelouch had the tell-tale shadows under his eyes that foreshadows certain death in the series: This hasn’t been constant in Code Geass; Bartley didn’t have any shadows under his eyes when he died and also in R2 ep 21 Nina has the shadows under her eyes when she is looking at the Fleja destruction – about 8mins in, but she isn’t dying.
-Lelouch orders Charles to ‘Be gone!’: We hear the tell tale click of Geass working, the only way it would work on Charles is if Lelouch had taken his father’s code. Also Lelouch reaches his full power whilst confronting his father – giving him the means necessary to be able to absord a code.
-C2 is praying the church as Lelouch dies and talks about Lelouch paying ‘a dear price’ for his geass: We already know that C2 doesn’t care about living and dying, although she does begin to ‘live’ more towards the end of R2 but the only reason she would be so distraught is if Lelouch had become immortal which she considers is horrible – she would hate Lelouch to have to bear the burden of immortality.
-The name of the show is Code Geass: this combined with the second season being named R2 hints at Lelouch obtaining amazing power and having Geass and a Code, otherwise the name Code Geass makes hardly any sense.
-We all know Lelouch is kick ass: He commanded God, changed the world and manipulated everyone so surely he’s just simply amazing enough to pull something like this off.
-Isn’t it abit cruel to just leave C2 all by herself, there’s no character development at all if she just ends up alone again.
-C2 never talked to herself: When she appeared to earlier on, she was really talking to Marianne. So why would she talk about Lelouch not being lonely and overcoming the power of the king.
-This isn’t really relevant but it is implied that Suzaku has a Geass at the end; Lelouch tells him that he will bear the respnsibility of being Zero for ‘eternity’ – and from past conversations we know that Lelouch doesn’t use the word eternity as a hyperbole (when he is talking to his father and to C2), also Suzaku says ‘This Geass, I do solemley accept’ which perhaps refers to him being cursed with the command to “live” but maybe hints at him accepting a Geass power (his contract would be that he would have to be Zero forever) and hints at Lelouch having a Code if he were to give Suzaku a Geass…but the times don’t match up because Lelouch hadn’t died and awoken his code yet (if he had one) but if Lelouch achieved ‘Code Geass; (having both as the show title suggests), then he would be able to. Also from season 1 we know that Suzaku had a high potential to be a Geass user as C2 said she sensed it (and he could sense her – right before Euphy started killing everyone he saw the same lights as Lelouch saw).
The only thing that I find is in agreement with him dying (and surprisingly no one has pointed this out) is that it is simply not really in Lelouch’s personality to live a comfortable life of immortality and boredom in hiding – I feel like he would always need to be scheming. But, looking at this closer I realised if he did live the director did us one last favour; if Lelouch did become immortal then it infers that he grew as a person, found peace and love. All through the series his weakest characteristic was that he couldn’t express his true feelings to anyone or take off his ‘mask’. It would be a very flat end if he did not develop as a character to learn to love and trust even though the world ‘betrayed him’. But I wouldn’t put it past the director to let C2 be alone for eternity just because it is tragic.
Nevertheless, the director did an amazing job of mind fucking everyone.
The moral of this is that by over analysing the facts and possibilities you have blurred the possibility of finding the truth.
I will simply state my opinion that the writers and designers wouldn’t have put the OBVIOUS ending of C.C questioning Lelouch, if he hadn’t been alive, the small view of the driver is directly an attempt to give the viewer the belief that it is him.
On the other hand it is a teaser to make the viewer believe he could be alive.
On simple basis, I believe that he is alive because there wouldn’t be a reason to put such a suspicious ending in if he wasnt alive.
Will we ever know unless they write him back into the next season, no. With that said, there is no reason for him to interfere in the world.
(My basis of his survive is that he has inherited Immortality from Charle’s death, with that being said I will state my own wishy washy theory that Suzaku may have known that Lelouch was immortal due to attempting to kill him in the world of C [ I mean really how can he not want to off Lelouch after that time], hence why Zero Requiem plan was thought up, as for Suzaku’s tears they could be both of acceptance that it’s finally done [for Euphie’s and the world sake], and that he will never see his friend again..)
Finally point Lelouch is too smart to die :p even a sacrificial death 😛
I think Lelouch is still alive. Orange claims to be loyal only to Marriane’s family. However, at the end he was seen with Anya at the farm, which is a similar setting to C.C. and the cart driver. My theory is that they are at the same place and he is protecting Lelouch. If Lelouch is dead he would’ve been somewhere else watching over Nunally.
Thanks a lot for posting “Mythbusting: Is Lelouch really dead?
Bokutachi no BLOG”. I reallymight undoubtedly end up being back for alot more browsing and commenting here in the near future.
Thanks, Margaret
LOLOL! Nunnally is telepathetic? Is that why she wasn’t able to tell Lelouch was lying to her 24/7 throughout season 1 about what he was doing all the time? Is that why she wasn’t able to tell Suzaku was lying too? Is that why she wasn’t able to figure out that Zero was Lelouch when he came to save her in R2? Dude, she touches people’s hands when she asks them questions because she can sense an irregularity in their pulse when they are lying. That is like basic grade 6 science, do you not know anything? How you even considered Nunnally to be telepathetic is completely beyond my comprehension.
I’m sorry but your explanation doesn’t make any sense at all. I would also suggest not putting myth: busted as that would be spreading false information. It is indirectly implied throughout the entire series (I suggest you watch it again and pay attention to the dialogue) as well as in the title that Lelouch inherits the code. “CODE GEASS: LELOUCH” of the rebellion doesn’t give it away enough right? When C.C. was crying near the end of R2, She said “You know what this means, don’t you Lelouch?” it was not because Lelouch was going to die, it was because Lelouch would never be allowed to see Nunnally again after the Zero Requiem.
It was not Lelouch’s life that he cherished the most, it was Nunnally, therefore the ultimate sacrifice he gave up in the Zero Requiem was not his life, but not being allowed to see his sister again, which was pretty ironic also considering Nunnally was the catalyst for Lelouch becoming Zero. How that is not incredibly obvious is beyond me. Did you watch it in the english dub or something? Another dead giveaway was C.C. I mean her geass power, was to force people to love her. Afterwards she didn’t know who loved her and who didn’t. The whole development between her and Lelouch and her choosing NOT to die and instead be with Lelouch just to have him die a few episodes later? Yeah that makes perfect sense.
It is also said that the person who awakens the full power of Geass gains the ability to kill a person with the code. This is said by C.C. and also explains how Charles was able to steal to code from V.V. Did you even pay a little bit of attention to the plot?
Back to C.C. She CHOSE NOT to die when Charles was going to kill her after Lelouch says he will give her a reason to smile. There being two codes. Charles was able to steal V.V.’s code, so what makes you think Charles wasn’t able to give it away to someone who had awakened the full Geass. He also said if you reject this world, you will be left with Schneizel’s world, and then yelled at him and grabbed him with the same hand that just so happened to conveniently have the code on it. Why didn’t he grab Lelouch with the other hand? Perhaps this is all theoretical, but it sure as hell makes a million times more sense than your “Nunnally is telepathetic” nonsense.
You need to watch the subbed version to fully understand the story. English dubs have a way of getting things lost in translation, as it does in pretty much every single anime it touches.
Because Charles is a Righty. But I agree with you on all the other points.;-)
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I agree with yukiterus reply, besides it wnt makw sense for lelouchi to kill lots of people, manuplate them and then just die happily smiling as an emperor, his atonement is for him to leave for eternity with his sin
AND SUNRISE ANNOUNCED THAT “HE IS DEAD”.
Actually, they stated that they would leave the ending open for speculation….then months later they released the full DVD version with the complete ending…the one with Lelouche’s partially-covered face as the cart driver….
Hey!If Nunnaly had either telepathic powers or lie detection than she would have known who lelouch was even in the 1st season when lelouce constantly lied to her.AND I think that if the code is working on sth and sb touches the code holder then,NO MATTER WHO IT IS, Geass holder or not you get a memory transfer.Because Nunnaly could never,NEVER guess that Suzaku was under the mask.Plus, the reason for the memory transfer was that the code was reviving Lelouch when Nunnaly touched him. So, Lelouch doesn’t die. Ad i’m going throttle anyone who says that he he didn’t kill Charles. He asked God (inthe world of C) to RESTORE THE FORWARD MOVEMENT OF TIME ,not tokill Charles.And while he requested God his Geass took its final form with which he obliterated Charles’ and Marianne’s existences.And that’s why LELOUCH BECOMES IMMORTAL.
Wow, i cannot muster enough douchebaggery to match what has been put forth in this post. That L.L. is alive is not open-ended, that was simply a ploy to snare all of the nay-sayers of the net. It is in fact, not open-ended at all; L.L. is alive and breathing, You are lying to yourself, poor Sir, avoiding the truth with pure nay-sayery. Furthermore, there is no evidence that L.L. is DEAD. None. There is a mountain of obvious proof that he is alive, but we never see his dead body, his funeral, anyone verifying his death. Face it, you were tricked by mild ambiguity.
Okay, so there are already a lot of commentors here and I didn’t actually read most of it because it’s so long but then, I also want to share my own opinion about Lelouch being alive. (*Note It’s up to you if you want to read this or not because I, too, may not have read your opinion so it’s only fair that you don’t read mine as well.) Anyway, I’m not sure if anyone had already thought about this but here’s what I thought.. Before Lelouch died, he gave his geass to Suzaku which means Lelouch became an immortal code bearer just like C.C.. Which means he became immortal. That’s all I thought (^_^) I’m not sure if it can be a possibilty though unless somebody can counter this opinion, maybe?
Lelouch never took Charleses code because Charles was absorbed into C’s world so therefore he is not immortal and therefore not alive, besides when you become immortal you loose your geass and well Lelouch did not since he used it after Charles was absorbed so he couldn’t be immortal. Charles was completely absorbed whereas the chick that C.C got her code from actually died not turned to nothing so yeah. He’s dead and as for C.C talking in the end if you remember throughout the series she was talking to nothing which was infact Lelouches mother because they were able to talk while Mariane was in C’s world as mentioned in R2 episode 21 so therefore since people that die are somewhere in C’s world that means that she was probably talking to Lelouch in C’s world not the driver.
and more over the people that made Code Geass themselves have said that he is dead so if they say he is dead then he is since it is there show and they make the rules. People just want Lelouch to be alvie so they make up all these theories to try and make it out the he is alive because they just don’t want to admit that he is DEAD.
Except that taking the code does not kill the previous code owner, therefore how the previous owner dies is irrelevant. C.C. code was forced upon her, then the previous owner stabbed herself to end her life. Lelouch took Charles code, then Charles was absorbed into C’s world. Also, the code does not activate until the person dies. So Lelouch still can use his geass up until the point when zerozaku stabs him.
Nunally taught lelouch how to make paper cranes, papercranes at end of anime. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Btw reason C.C could talk to Mariane is because part of her was still in the pink haired girl’s body, anna or w/e, it was mariane’s abitlity
I think he is alive because remember when he used his geass on god? he said ” what I want to see is tomorrow” well if he was dead he wouldn’t be able to see tomorrow so god must have prevented lelouch from dieing so he can see tomorrow
So why would the cart driver have exactly the same smirk as Lelouche?with the same face shape?If he was just a normal cart driver, why hide his face to the extent of covering even the lower part?and why would a normal cart driver respond the way he did if C.C. was just voicing a random comment to no one in particular?Why would the producers even include that very last scene in the japanese version if it wasn’t supposed to mean something?those people never do anything randomly without reason.
Why would Nunnaly suddenly have that vision of her brother and Suzaku’s plan if Lelouche weren’t already immortal? Remember what happened when C.C. used the power of her code in one of the episodes to destabilize Suzaku? Remember when Lelouche touched her and she couldn’t control the visions and so he ended up seeing her past? Maybe because he had to go into hiding afterwards, Lelouche wanted to comfort his sister by sharing with her what his death meant. But it had to wait until after his death, because he could not risk the credibility of his plan. Otherwise, why go dramatic and die in front of his sister instead of just slumping on the chair as most stab victims do?
He must’ve known about his immortality; must’ve seen it as a flaw in his grand plan. I don’t think he ever imagined inheriting his father’s code. He had to go into hiding since death could not have been an option, but had to make it so believable, so that despite that obv. flaw, people would still believe his death and move on. Because they had to.
I think that since a Code cannot be destroyed, but only transfered to a person with a Geass, Charles passed on (maybe unwillingly or unwittingly) his Code to Lelouche. His Code showed up in his hand. I agree that it could’ve shown up anywhere on Lelouche’s body. Of course, there’s the argument that you can only pass on you Code to someone you’ve made a contract with. But then, we don’t fully understand that rules or limitations of a Code – only that it cannot be destroyed, only passed on. In this case, you and I will have a dead-end argument. Unless either one of us comes up with something.
Suzaku could or could not have known. His tears might have been because he really thought he was killing Lelouche, or maybe because he knew he would never see his best friend again, just like Nunnally knew that she would never see her brother again. All for the sake of Zero Requiem.
I agree that Orange might have been in on the plan, he might’ve known about it. It is curious that he would live in a country setting with Anya, whilst at the same time the series showed C.C. and the “anonymous” cart driver n the same vein. I think he would’ve followed Lelouche anywhere.
If Lelouche had really died, and had only forced Orange to accept his decision – Orange would’ve smiled a different smile. Not happy contentment, but resigned contentment. Orange looked absolutely happy….like joyous or something. I don’t think that came from just picking oranges in the aftermath of Lelouche’s death. You might argue that a year (or something like that) has passed since then… so I’ll agree with the other comment: If Lelouche had really died and Orange was really that dedicated to Marianne’s family, why not stay to protect Nunnally? Why go into the country with Anya? Lelocche’s legacy might’ve made him happy, you could say, but why had he smiled at the time of Lelouche’s stabbing? Wouldn’t it have made more sense if he’d seemed extremely sad then? He seemed happy even then.
C.C. crying in that church was actually grief. Not tears of joy or anything. It was not grief at Lelouche’s death, I think it was grief at what Lelouche was sacrificing for the greater good. In a way, it was a death of sorts. Not being able to live with your loved ones hurts. A lot. And C.C. understood that more than anyone else.
Remember in R1, Lelouche promised C.C. something? That he would be the warlock to her witch? I’d like to believe he kept that promise. And after showing C.C. in the World of C that her true wish was to live with someone who loved her forever, and not to die at the hands of a protege, I think it would be contradictory to Lelouche’s principles if he had actually died. I’d like to think that they ended up together.
In the end, it’s just my opinion. I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT LELOUCHE IS ALIVE.
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This is worth reading as it is more than likely NOT a reason you have ever heard as to why Lelouche is still alive and it is a well thought out one… So please give it some time.
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The reason I think Lelouch is still alive is because of Charles, Marianne, C.C., Lelouch, and eventually God and their big conversation (though God is silent, as usual) which leads to a large action being taken by God at Lelouche’s command or asking (or perhaps it’s just because they have the same goal). Once that situation is started and resolved I think some things are answered and clues are left behind…confirming something at least in my eyes…
The biggest thing that tells us that Lelouch may have indeed received Charles’s code (or V.V.’s code) is that Charles is absorbed against his will into C.C.’s world. C.C. stated that she didn’t get absorbed because she no longer believed in “the cause” and she had other promises to keep. So C.C., by a change of heart, is left unharmed by the collision of the “two worlds” and the ramifications of what Lelouch has done with God. God may have transferred Charles’s code to Lelouch (or for all we know Lelouch had God do it himself via his Geass; though it’s still possible like many have said that Charles gave Lelouch his code voluntarily–to some degree–and it now appears on his hand/throat/etc…) before he was absorbed, because I HIGHLY doubt Charles “wanted” to go at that point in time since his goals and dreams were crushed! Of course Charles wanted to stay, so if he DID want to stay, why couldn’t he? Like C.C. did just by having a “change of heart” and “willing” it (due to her code, her immortality)… The answer is VERY obvious. When Marianne and Charles begin to be absorbed and eventually disappear, but they ask C.C. why she isn’t being absorbed with them in this “contract” (as said above, she “willed” it so because she has other things to live for now–but “willing” it isn’t enough or Marianne would be safe too–BUT, Marianne needed the code of an immortal to get out…). But, Charles is absorbed whether he liked it or not, he had no choice even though HE “WAS” immortal, thus making this whole process from what C.C. said…impossible! That means when Charles is being absorbed he no longer has his code and that is FACT!
This also brings up one final point. If Marianne is absorbed (and has Geass, as well as Charles) and Charles is absorbed also AND C.C. WAS going to be absorbed… Are we really sure that Lelouch was actually ever that safe in this whole process!? I think Lelouch was going to be absorbed into C.C.’s world also, but due to God or Charles (or himself if he forced God to make him transfer Charles’s Geass) Lelouch lucked out and received the other immortality code therefore ensuring his safe passage out of the thought elevator/temple… I think this is a very possible scenario given that Charles talked to Lelouche about his brother and how the outside world would be terrible, trying to talk his way out of this fate he NEVER saw coming (and that the number ONE knight
couldn’t see either).
So, who does have it? The “other planet” didn’t seem to be “gobbled up” in the absorption, or basically the sword of Akasha didn’t complete “its” goal by killing God…so that basically implies that the immortality Charles had is now carried by someone else and unless C.C. can carry two… That is the final question, however. But, if you ask me it was given to Lelouch by “God” or by Charles ( though if Charles did give it to him there are a lot of reasons why that may have happened, but that is another topic for somewhere else; though I do think I can explain part of the reasoning).
Needless to say I absolutely believe that Lelouche is more than alive.
BTW, as for a few of the other things being said…
The driver could be Lelouche, but it is possible that Lelouche is in the hay itself (a very common tactic for people trying to hide themselves in a populated area). I also believe that C.C.’s comment about not being alone was attributed to her and him living forever, because if she was talking about the “spirit speak” ability that was something Marianne had ONLY WHEN Marianne was using her Geass and was out of her normal body (which is why she was “stuck, basically, with the microphone on after she was murdered by V.V.).
As someone above said, there is a great deal of this show that has a lot in common with the myth and lore of the Arthurian Legend, of Excalibur, of Avalon, of that mighty tale… In the end Excalibur (Geass) and it’s guardian in the lake disappear with it, into time… BUT, The Excalibur in this show (those that create the Geass or Merlin) there are TWO of them; a young boy and a woman, But, once the boy dies who knows what will happen to the “Geassii” he had out amongst the people. There very much may have been the need, after “Arthur dies” to have another to walk with C.C., a L.L. (or R.R. if it makes more people happy) to forever keep watch on this god-like device…
Again with this theory, Arthur, when he dies is supposed to go to Avalon…the HOME of Excalibur. Since his Geass is at it’s utmost “rank” and ability it is also possible in some way that he “evolved” again and became immortal. Or if he died he finally did go to C2’s world, “Avalon”. There are a lot of ways to read into that.
As to C.C. at the end referring to Lelouch and her being together, physically, and not in some ridiculous psychic way…a few things make me think this is true. He PROMISED to make her smile and this WOULD, especially if she was in love (and I think they were, quite a bit before some of many of the events went down, about the time she gets her memory back). There is a scene were they are sitting in a room talking about Nunnally (last time Lelouche was with this he wanted to use drugs and HARSHLY came onto Kallen) and how Lelouche is suffering emotionally, C.C. sits up against him on the bed back to back moving her hands back towards his–it looked like this might turn into a very “heated” scene at any moment as Lelouche did need it and I truly believe C.C. wished to give it to him as she was in love with him (after a few kisses already, though may will say they were “placebo” kisses). But, right before anything happens we get a scene of Mordred (who happens to be Marianne deep within) eating a well mad hot-dog in a bun. This show is BOILING with all sorts of innuendo, but I took that one to mean that they DID “cross the line”.
Again, another reason why I think C.C. herself wouldn’t allow Lelouche to kill himself. Hell, she might go as far as recommending that they put that crappy makeup on herself (as they did to Lelouche’s maid at the school) and have Suzaku stab her (letting him know completely about her immortality , Though that is a weak theory…the one I have at the top is how I truly believe it worked out.
Feel free to unravel it all…
Actually, I loved your reason, but it did have a few holes..did you mean that a person had to be ‘immortal’ to be able to get out of C.C.’s world? But then how would you explain Suzaku surviving? He had no Geass, and he could not have had a Code. I think that the best way to explain it is this: God had killed off Marianne and Charles because Lelouche had commanded it. God was susceptible to Lelouche’s Geass because God was only actually a collective consciousness of the people, therefore making him a ‘mind’ that can be manipulated. I’ll stick to my earlier explanation and claim that Charles really did not want to die. But since God was already destroying him, and since Lelouche had commanded him to ‘be gone’, ( i do believe he was powerful enough to command a Code Bearer, being in C.C.’s world and all) he had no choice but to die. In effect, his existence was erased, but the Code was not since it cannot be destroyed..only passed on. A Code is usually passed on to the person whose geass was given by the bearer of that Code, but in Lelouche’s case – he killed a Code Bearer with the Geass C.C. had given him. And a Code is only passed on when a geass user had become strong enough to be able to use it and manifest the power in both eyes.
There you have it.
You are completely right on the Suzaku part, I don’t know why I forgot that at all… He was standing right there, so obviously having “the code” doesn’t protect you in that way. It had more to do with my original line of thought. The four that were originally part of that deal were the ones in danger of being absorbed outright (as the writing says as Charles starts the sword of Akasha, “All ye who enter here, abandon all hope”, a small hint that this is the gateway/procedure to hell, most likely; from Dante BTW). Ultimately, those four and Lelouche and Suzaku all could’ve been absorbed I imagine IF they agreed with that line of thought. But, Charles and Marianne had absolutely no way out, only C.C. did because, well, it was her world after all (I imagine; that really would have to be answered by the director).
Anyway I decided to go back and rewatch that one specific episode so I could track down exactly when it would have had to happened and what parts were “off” from what I wrote or impossible. There are a few things of course that I got completely wrong and it also meant that certain things couldn’t have happened. However, the main idea is still completely viable (and I still think it is very good evidence to prove otherwise to his death).
The code transfer would have to happen right when Charles grabs Lelouche by the throat, this is the last time we see the mark on the emperor before he disappears (and we can’t tell if it is gone or not after he lets go of Lelouche’s throat). It should be noted that the knight of one, who can see the future (though we don’t know any real details or limitations of his Geass), knows right after Charles is absorbed that his plan has failed. The other reason I mention the knight of one is that when he fights Suzaku, even though Suzaku only has the Geassed urge to live (at it’s maximum strength and possibly with a code embedded in it) beats this knight. It seemed like that should be a fight Suzaku SHOULD lose if ever there was one, but just that Geass lets him win, which tells me something pretty bizarre is going on with Lelouche’s Geass right now.
It’s possible that God or Charles transferred the code to Lelouche (I doubt Lelouche did it “mentally” or by his Geass), but I think it was Charles in the end who gave it to Lelouche for a very good reason. Charles knew that C.C. WAS NOT going to participate, which meant that it might fail. But, Charles knew Lelouche was going back to a terrible world (on I think the emperor helped “setup” as a “just in case” sort of scenario if Lelouche DID screw things up for him). He talked to Lelouche for quite a while about his brother ruling the world with Nunnally trapped beside him as a hostage; a terrible world. We know how bad it would’ve been had they won; he would’ve gotten into orbit and killed billions of people while Nunnally sat there, unable to do anything. This “plot” that the emperor most likely knew of from his knight of one, most likely figured in this case, eventually C.C. would give up entirely and soon too would Lelouche.
Then C.C. and Lelouche would most likely go about recreating the sword of Akasha, but this time letting it fully progress and kill them both. That, I believe is why Charles HAS given Lelouche his code–even IF his brother Schniezel failed against Lelouche, as he did–one day depression will lead the two of them to the sword once again… And from there the Ragnarok Connection will proceed forth again.
To me it makes sense that Charles would give Lelouche his code because, no matter what, it IS the only way, NOW, that his plan can ever progress again… But I also agree that unless they absolutely follow through with the sword of Akasha, those two “everlasting codes” are basically indestructible. Again, that would get down to the possibility of the “consciousness” (or God) picking a new host and I believe Lelouche would be the choice.
That’s a really feasible reason…and I’m so glad for that..so now, I guess we can establish that Charles did – more or less – give Lelouche his Code (willingly or unwittingly) for whatever reasons Charles might have had. I’m just really happy Lelouche is alive.
That’s one point off Brian’s mythbuster….XD
When you have a code, you lose your geass power, as you see in C.C. once Lulu becomes emperor he continues to use geass, therefore he cannot have a code. Furthermore he did not kill the emperor, the collective unconscious did.
If in any way he remains, it would be due to the fact that he had such an impact on the minds and lives of the entire world, that he is preserved in the collective unconscious and C’s world. This would also explain how C.C could talk to him.
However I believe C.C was talking to the origami crane, as that is an established symbol of hope within the series.
also, orange is not loyal to Lulu, he was loyal to is mother and a certain type of britania
Do you know why it was named “Code Geass”? Because It was the story of a boy who became a geass user and a code bearer at the same time. The title then worked for the other spin-offs of the original series, but the same reason remains. Lelouche was the ONLY person so far to acquire a code that he should not have inherited from his father and still have his powerful Geass. He DID kill the emperor…he told his father to “disappear”, right? I suggest re-watching that particular episode. He ordered God to stop the Sword of Akasha and destroy it, then he ordered his father’s death. His Geass had not worked on his father before on account of its weakness and the fact that Charles was still strong within the world of C. The minute the world of C started collapsing, Lelouche’s power had grown invariably stronger and his father’s will, weaker. So the Geass worked. Also, C.C. is not so foolish as to talk to a piece of paper – she was talking to Lelouche. Watch the original Japanese DVD release and see for yourself how the upper-half of Lelouche’s face is shown. And Orange swore fealty and loyalty to Lelouche…remember? It was after he got his Geass canceler. I suggest re-watching the WHOLE season 2 so you can get it right next time.
Spot on with this write-up, I really believe that this web site needs a lot more
attention. I’ll probably be back again to read through more, thanks for the information!
Remember that in r1 CC would sometime talk to empty space as if someone is actually there, maybe the same thing is happening, maybe CC is badly traumatized by Lelouch’s death, that her mind created a “phantom image” of Lelouch and she is conversing with it,
Or, he is dead in the “real” world but alive in another, something like C’s world!
Explaining CC talking to him
Nah…won’t work..it doesn’t make sense that after all that C.C. has been through (persecutions, wars, genocides, etc.), ONLY Lelouche’s death would traumatize her so much that she’d go crazy and create a phantom image of him. Also, he can’t be dead in the ‘real’ world because like I said…he’s already got his father’s code, therefore rendering him immortal.
As for the C’s world thing…C.C. would have to be inside this world to be able to communicate with Lelouche properly. Remember how Charles had to go in to be able to talk to his dead son, the first one the Lelouche killed? Yeah, that one.
As for the whole “C.C. would sometimes talk to empty space”…yeah, she would. But then, WHY WOULD C.C. CONVERSE WITH HERSELF WHILE RIDING ON A HAY CART WITH A DRIVER WHO COULD HEAR HER? Unless, of course, the driver was Lelouche himself.
Lelouche is a man who kept his promises. HE promise C.C. he would make her true wish come true, i.e, being loved for real and not just because of a geass. For reference, here’s a link i found:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120218223333AAAfuyB
it’s a question totally unrelated to this topic, but the answer to the question has a lot of good points that would support mine. Refer esp. to answer no. 6, about Lelouche’s promise.
I believe that when C C was talking to Lelouch in the final episode she was talking to him in the world of C. If you think back to Season 1 after Clovis’ death Charles says ” Actually I was just conversing with Clovis.” Implying that people with access to the world of C can talk to the spirits resting there. Also When C C kills Mao she tells him she’ll see him in the world of C. So my theory is that she is conversing with the spirit of Lelouch that’s resting in the world of C.
Nah..you need to be in the world of C to be able to talk to anyone who’s already dead. Or you’d have to have Marianne’s Geass. Code rules and all that.
I think the only question that needs to be asked to determine if he’s dead is this. To what extent can c2 speak to others with the powers of geass and what are the limits? I am doubtful she would be able to communicate with him if he were dead as I would think if he were truly dead he would have lost his geass in this world and she would be unable to reach him. Plus WHAT she is saying doesn’t seem like it could be implying anything other than his being alive.
I really don’t see how Myth 2, the orange boy one, was busted by that counter argument… Honestly, the argument about orange boy was much better than the counter argument. The fact that it states that orange boy shows no remorse or regrets and aided in the plan by saying, “move forward masked knight,” is a great point. Even if one were to state that orange boy did it, because Lelouch, his master, ordered him to. A lot of things still don’t add up. For instance, why would he be smiling and perfectly content at the end? wtf? Even if he did kill Lelouch out of loyalty, he wouldn’t be having a grand time. Also, even if he’s loyal and willing to follow lelouch to hell, and probably willing to sacrifice himself, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t agree to having his master killed. Furthermore, how does that counter argument even refute the myth? Sure, it’s logical, but it doesn’t disprove it; it’s more speculation. The way I see it, they made it open ended. The directors cut shows CC “talking” to lelouch and shows the lower frame of what looks to be lelouch. Imo, it was taken out to make it open ended and the director’s cut was in the blue ray to get people to buy it. That’s it.
Moreover, it’s not even real, so why does everyone even care whether or not he died? As it is fictional and made open-ended, just choose to believe what you want at this point. It’s like cowboy bebop, it was open ended, spoiler…. whether or not Spike died. Most people think he did, but it wasn’t, by any means, explicit.
I only ranted before, because I didn’t agree at all with the counter argument lol.
PS. If you’re expecting on me to reply, don’t count on it. I just happened to google this, and got annoyed with Myth 2 and the comments enough to even type all this.
Does Lelouch really seem like the kind of guy to sacrifice himself at the end? I’m not buying it. It’s clear he loves his sister to death, but it doesn’t mean he’s dumb enough to not come up with a plan that benefits him in some shape or form at the end, especially when he has an obvious way to. If I can think of a way, I’m sure as hell he can think of million more.
I mean seriously, how great is that? Trick Suzaku into caring for your sister, and take a second take on living a normal life.
Come on people. Let’s be honest here, there are times when Lelouch shows remorse, but we always see his true colors soon after time and time again.
Darn, I killed Shirley’s dad. Sad … oh well, life goes on. I got to murder millions of more people for my sister.
Whoops, accidentally made Euphemia a mass murderer. Should I let the britanians restrain her and risk being exposed? Or will I use her death to benefit my “just” cause. Hmmm. I’ll kill her.
Oh, look, my sister no longer needs me to be happy. Depressed. I’ll still murder millions more because I owe it to the Japanese people!
Crap, Suzaku’s definately out to beat my ass. I could probably kill him somehow, but I do have some sentimental feelings for him and my sister. I should probably come up with a way to make it up to them, but certainly not at the cost of my own life.
“Those who kill should be prepared to be killed.” Right right, as if you haven’t contradicted yourself before.
Oh, I can make the world a better place. Hmmm. There’s a clear way for me to pull this off, make my sister happy, and live a peaceful life across the planet. Nah, I’m the kind of guy who atones for his sins. Clearly, I learned after the first million deaths.
There’s a reason why everyone compares Code Geass to Death Note. Lelouch sure ain’t no saint. C’mon niggas. You’re being played, and the one laughing at your asses is a fictional Lelouch.
Actions speak louder than words! Don’t let the dramatic music, and his theatrical performance let him fool of you.
Don’t think that his atonement would even work realistically.
On a side note his “sacrifice” is complete BS. That’s completely illogical that having the world hate you, and then letting your self be “killed” actually works. If you get past that the next generation will completely forget about the incident, and that countries, individuals, etc are always power hungry for resources, power, individual wealth, etc. What? Suzaku is gunna stop them. Lol as if he’s gunna manage the whole world with his organization. Even if he’s noble to the end, he’ll die eventually, and there’s bound to be corruption, etc. Life’s not that simple. When Hitler died, did the world’s problems stop? Hell no. When communism collapsed, did the world’s problems stop? Hell no. Was the world a better place after these events? I won’t deny that, but the point is that war, poverty, hunger for power, corruption, etc are the ways of this world. People forget, the next generation looks at history’s mistakes with the notion that they can do better. Hitler could have done better if he did this. Stalin pulled it off pretty well? Right? Until he died. If I could just train the next dictator better, it can work. Sudam hussain could have got away with it if he did this. etc etc etc. Look at the native americans! No one gives a fk about them anymore. And that was a mass genocide. People forget, people become objective, and just view it as another one of history’s events that have little to no influence on them. It is what it is.
All in all, I’m still a huge fan of Code Geass. I just felt like playing the devil’s advocate for all those saps who see lelouch as some kind of Atoning Saint. LMAO
I, honestly, don’t see Lelouch doing it in a way that he can’t worm is way out of in the end though. Any way I look at it. The dramatic music and one “act” of atonement can’t ignore the millions, maybe even billions, of other people he killed. It’s just a game of chess. It’s fun and exciting for him. It really doesn’t make any sense for him to be the atoning type in the final one or two episodes after 48 or so episodes. It really is illogical to see it that way from my perspective.
He belongs in a short list of the greatest villains in my book. The first being Johan from Monster, then the antagonist in Psycho-pass, then Lelouch, and then maybe Light.
He has some form of consciousness, clearly. But at the same time, he’s too smart to just let himself be killed.
I always held Lelouch in higher regard than Light. Lelouch still had a noble goal despite his methods, while Light wanted to become a god and was only out for personal gain.
Myth 1 is the only plausible one imo. Just some questions I think that need to be answered before you can ascertain whether or not lelouch is actually alive.
1. Does the code always have to have an owner? If yes, either lelouch or C.C. got Charles’ Code because Suzaku would not be capable of inheriting it. (This is assuming that a person can possess two codes basing it on that Charles was able to take C.C.’s code before lelouch stopped him)
2. one of lelouch’s goals was to erase the existence of geass permanently and if C.C. and him were the code owners they would live happily ever after for eternity and not make anymore contracts. If lelouch did not receive the code and neither did C.C. then what happened to the other code? Can the code be destroyed? Can someone else come along and obtain it then? Lelouch is diligent enough to make sure if he was going to die, that the other code was taken care of beforehand. Without knowing about the second code, you cannot determine if Lelouch is dead or alive.
Man, I feel like a necro but just recently discovered this anime and have spent the better part of 3 hours researching the possibilities. these are my thoughts:
Lelouch appears to be dead, and no other possibility has been put forward from the people who created this story. The director’s cut ending that has been put out there is not a definitive fact as it has not been confirmed by the director. It may never be confirmed. For argument’s sake, lets say it was the way it was supposed to end.
These are the only possibilities….
1. Lelouch is dead, the cart driver was no one, Story ends.
2. Lelouch is dead, the cart driver was Suzaku, Story ends.
3. Lelouch is dead, cart driver was Suzaku, Lelouch transferred his soul into Suzaku to be with C.C in her world like Lady Marianne and Anya Alstreim.
4. Lelouch is alive, cart driver was Lelouch, Lelouch immortality angle.
And thanks to intentionally ambiguous endings, we will be arguing for eternity what actually is the case, because those who originally made the story will no longer be continuing it if it happens.
I just finished rewatching Code Geass and everytime I see the end, I’m like “WHOA”. Quite honestly, the ending is good enough that I actually cried a little.
That being said, I wonder if Lelouch is dead or alive myself. The arguments here are the same ideas and evidence I’ve found everywhere else. I’ve reached the conclusion that the ending is for us to decide. If you think Lelouch is dead, then he’s dead. If you think Lelouch is alive, then so be it. Think some other possibility, well it might be that.
Personally, I like to believe that Lelouch is alive but I also like the idea of him dying. It was a good ending even if I had to watch Suzaku send a sword through Lelouch’s heart and watch the man slide down and bleed out. It was kinda hard for me to watch but Lelouch did it for a reason and with the way things were, it was the only way to make things right. Anyway, back on topic. Because of the debate swirling around Lulu living or not I believe it’s safe to say we should just interpret the ending however we like. It doesn’t seem like providing proof of what director or creator , or whatever saying Lelouch is dead is stopping people from saying he’s alive. I’ve heard arguments that things they said weretranslated wrong or that they said one thing but it really means this.
With the ending seeming soooooooooo ambiguous, I took it as the story can go two ways like a game with multiple endings. I choose the ending and if I like I can go back and choose the other ending. Smart ol’ Lulu can survive or I can let him die: I can decide myself. Either way, the story has ended and one can have the ending they like best or the one they find most fitting for Lelouch.
Everyone has great points but I’ll stick to the ending being ambiguous. I’ll consider him alive personally but I won’t deny he died either. Besides, dead or alive, the world was going to hate Lelouch for everything he did. His cause was noble but you wouldn’t be able to explain that to his enemies and the remainder of the world. His death, a single life, won’t make up for all those who died because of him so no one would see it as atonement or repentance. Lelouch did what he had to do though to end it all and the dude is awesome.
Alive or dead, take your pick. It’ basically become a choose your own ending at this point. We still debate over it to this day so I think it’s fair to call it that. Lelouch lives in my eyes but he can be dead if I decide to change my mind. We can all agree to disagree on this ending.
I am one of those who believe Lelouch is probably alive. I’ll try to avoid repeating arguments others have already said.
1) C.C’s contract
The contract was originally for Lelouch to kill C.C. But that was only because C.C. was unhappy living in a world where all her friends withered away while she kept on living forever. So the deeper meaning to the contract is not to kill C.C, but to end her sadness – and Lelouch is the kind of guy who would see this contract through. The fact that C.C. was happy in the cart can be taken as a hint that he succeeded in making her happy. Since C.C.’s reason for sadness was the constant disappearance of friends, the only way he could have made her happy is creating an eternal – also as in ageless – friend, himself.
2) Code means no Geass – really?
I understand this is not an argument for “alive”, I’m just countering an argument that is often used to prove Lelouch is dead, which in turn can make “alive” more probable. It is often used as a definitive argument that if you get the code, you lose the geass. I think maybe that’s not quite correct (reference intended :). It is very much possible that you lose only the geass that you got from the same code-bearing person you kill. Since Lelouch killed Charles but got the geass from C.C., he wouldn’t necessarily lose the geass.
3) Staying alive would negate all the sacrifice Lelouch has made
No it wouldn’t. In fact, you could argue that staying alive without ever being able to contact your loved ones and friends is a greater punishment than death. This is is actually supported by C.C’s death wish, who wants to die because she cannot have long lasting relationships.
4) The relation between the geass’ effect and the user’s death
I find the argument for “alive” that a geass loses its effect after the caster dies pretty good. We could say this could certainly prove Lelouch is alive if it isn’t countered, since the effect on Schneitzel stayed even after Lelouch’s “death” (and remember what happened to the geass kids at the research facility earlier). This is countered by saying that Anya didn’t get her memory back even after Charles died. But the truth is, we don’t know if Anya was under Charles’s geass. All we know is that she had some strange memory loss, and viewers automatically connected it with Charles ability since he also tempers with memories. But it was never found out if Anya’s memories were erased by Charles, or even if they were artificially erased at all. We also don’t know if using the geass canceller on her was successful or not. So the whole counterargument with Anya is just based on made up assumptions, while we surely saw in the research facility that a killed geass-user loses its effect. Nunally was also able to regain her eyesight after Charles died.
I completely agree with your opinion and the points you made in one, two, and three. However, for point four, in Turn 20 or 21 Charles says that he rewrote Anya’s memory to protect her from V.V.(V2) Anya’s memory loses after that was because of Lelouch’s mother’s Geass of mind uploading(look it up). Because Lelouch’s mother uploaded her mind in Anya she(Anya) started experiencing memory lose. Also in previous comments it was stated that the Geass lasts forever depending on what it is. Control of another person’s body requires your mind to move their body part, but commanding someone to do something everyday and not remember doing it would not require your direct control. Anya gaining her memory back was not shown so that part is true, but the Geass canceler should prevent any further memory loses. Nunally could have always opened her eyes but she was used to not using her eyes so they opened and became useful to her when she needed them the most.
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I Like How This Topic Has Gone For Nearly 7 Years And The Comments Change From Mythbusting At The Top To Arguing Continuously At The Bottom.
I love how I read all the comments to the 19th of December, 2009 and multiple aspects of the episodes were repeated over and over again.
Also C.C said she would never let anyone kill lelouch, yet she did let someone “kill him” do he can’t possibly be dead.
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About the geass on Scheizel, it lived on because Lelouch phrased the command as (not exactly like this) “You will serve me, serve Zero”. When Lelouch died, Zero (now Suzaku) was still alive and so became the ‘master’ of Scheizel. :)))
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